Controlling heater with Intellitouch

Jonesbackr

Gold Supporter
Jul 22, 2018
26
Lufkin, TX
I purchased my new home and pool in June and have been able to figure everything out by combing through the forums here. Great resource! However, I finally have a problem I can't find an answer to.

I have a Pentair Intellitouch system that controls everything, or at least it is supposed to, and I've managed to get it to function for most items...valve actuators, lights, pumps. My heater however, remains manual. Heater is a MasterTemp 400K. I've done some digging and the jumper on the fireman switch is already removed and a wire is installed in it's place that runs to the Intellitouch. However, the wire ends are twisted together behind the main panel in the Intellitouch. Heater turns on manually with no problem and works great. When I untwist the wires and insert them in J19 (heater) the heater turns off and nothing will make it come back on. Even though the heater light is illuminated on the front panel of the Intellitouch, the heater never turns on. Pull the wires out of J19 and twist them together and the heater instantly turns on.

It seems to me that something is preventing the Intellitouch from activating the heater, even though it says it is activated. Any thoughts on how to fix or some troubleshooting ideas?

Thanks to all who have contributed already. Love this forum!
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
15,768
Bedford, TX
jb,

Welcome to TFP... a great place to find the answers to all of your "Controlling" questions... :shark:

I suspect it is just a typo, but the heater connection for an IntelliTouch is J30.. J19 is the heater connection for the EasyTouch systems. If it says "Gas Heat" then than is the one.

My guess is the relay that is connected to J30 or J19 is bad, and that is why the previous owner has the wires shorted.

In theory, all that has to happen to close the relay and turn the heater on is that the water temperature is below the "set point" I assume that you have adjusted the set point to the temperature you want the water to be??? Keep in mind there is a Pool heat set point and a Spa heat set point.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
15,768
Bedford, TX
I’m not sure if this helps but my remote system worked with everything but my spa jets. It was a relay

Ray
Ray,

If you are talking about one of the big High Voltage relays in the bottom of the main enclosure, they are not in the heater circuit. If you are talking about one of the small low voltage relays on one of the circuit boards, then I suspect you are correct.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

Jonesbackr

Gold Supporter
Jul 22, 2018
26
Lufkin, TX
Hi team,

thanks for all all of the replies so far. You guys are too good. I do have an EasyTouch system and not IntelliTouch. I confused the two.

So I am plugged in to J19 and I had changed the set point of the heater program. The spa is set to work on heater and I have the temp set to maximum. The heater light comes on at the panel and the word “HEATER” shows up on the display.

It it must be a bad relay. I’m feel dumb for not knowing this, but where do I find this relay and how do I replace it? Is there a way to confirm this with a voltmeter?

Thanks again for the awesome help!
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
15,768
Bedford, TX
jb,

Well, logic says it is most likely K5, which is right next to J19... but Pentair is often not logical, so it is just a guess on my part.

It appears to fix the problem you will have to unsolder and remove the old relay and solder in a new one. Pentair does not offer parts to repair their circuit cards, so finding the right relay might take some exploring.

I know a guy that might know, I'll give him a buzz...

If you could figure out which pins are the coil connections for the relay, you could use a volt meter and measure the coil voltage when the heater was supposed to be on vs. when the heater should be off. If the coil voltage (most likely 24 VDC) is there when the heater is supposed to be on, and zero when the heater should be off, that would be a pretty good indication that the relay is bad.. In other words, the board is telling the relay to close when heat is needed, but the contacts inside the relay that turn the heater on, are never closing.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
17,355
Just use a multimeter to check the terminals to see if they are open or closed.

If the system is calling for heat, the two terminals should show as connected (0 ohms).

When not calling for heat, the terminals should show open line.

What is the EasyTouch showing for water temperature?

What temperature is set for pool mode and spa mode?
 

Jonesbackr

Gold Supporter
Jul 22, 2018
26
Lufkin, TX
The water is reading 66 currently and I have the spa temp set at 102. Looks like the relay is indeed bad, though I’ll confirm that with my voltmeter when I get back home. I was able to find the relay on amazon for $15. Probably overpriced, but worth it to me. This will also give a good reason to upgrade my soldering iron and get that soldering station I’ve been eying.

Ill let let you guys know when I confirm the relay and get it replaced.

Thanks!
 

ogdento

Bronze Supporter
Mar 30, 2015
408
Chico, CA
Hey guys,
K5 is the heater relay.

The relays I've seen on these boards are Omron G5V-1 or HFD23-024-1ZS (24 Volt dc coil). Before you order one, go through James tests above. Do you hear the relay click at all? If not, check the resistance on the coil - those are pin 2 and 9. Google the Omron G5V-1 for images and you'll see the schematic.
 

ogdento

Bronze Supporter
Mar 30, 2015
408
Chico, CA
another thing... if you're not 100% sure it's the relay, check the relay drivers. there are two 2803 socketed chips on the board. i don't know off the top of my head which chip drives k5 but you can use a meter's continuity function to find it - or better yet, just swap the chips and see if it works. if it does, replacements are cheap.

if you do have to desolder, no need for a fancy soldering station - unless you want one anyway ;) i've got a bunch of soldering/desoldering equipment now and my go-to for through-hole parts is just a cheap radio shack desoldering iron i got maybe 15 years ago? it's basically a low-ish wattage iron with a hole in the tip and a squeeze bulb... works better those hand-held click-pump deals.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
15,768
Bedford, TX
O,

Thanks for chiming in... The reason I suggested looking at the coil voltage was to eliminate the driver chip. I did not know that they were socketed... good to know.

Jim R.
 

ogdento

Bronze Supporter
Mar 30, 2015
408
Chico, CA
Oh yeah Jim for sure, if 24 volts isn't there, the driver's dead. Pentair probably realized the 2803s would be a common failure point and thankfully socketed them. I throw them in a little tester I built to see if they're junk, but you can also test them using the the diode check and resistance mode on a multimeter

FWIW, out of maybe 25 broken easytouch and intellitouch boards I've only seen 1 relay go bad - and it was because somebody dropped the board and it was visibly physically damaged. It's not a huge sample, but it supports the idea that the driver dies first.

Tom
 

Jonesbackr

Gold Supporter
Jul 22, 2018
26
Lufkin, TX
Ok folks, I got the new relays in and decided to just swap it out (really wanted a reason to use my new iron). Still not working. So I did the resistant check I should have done before replacing the relay. Turns out pin 2 and 9 read as open when the system is calling for heat and when it isn’t. Looks like the socketed chip might be the problem. Is this as simple as removing and replacing the chip or is there something I don’t know about chip replacement? Forgive the dumb question, but is there any firmware or software that needs to be on these chips?

Thanks a ton!
 

Jonesbackr

Gold Supporter
Jul 22, 2018
26
Lufkin, TX
Quick update to close this out. Replaced both socketed chips and everything works like a champ.

Thanks so much for everyone’s help. Saved me about $400 on a new board!
 

Jonesbackr

Gold Supporter
Jul 22, 2018
26
Lufkin, TX
Better late than never. Came back for another question and realized I never followed through on my promise to support. I have now. Proud Gold Supporter. Thanks again everyone.