Construction complete...then no instructions

[geonjay]

Hello. Long time reader, short time contributor.
I need help.
Hayward equipment. 325 cartridge filter, AquaRite 925 SWG, 1.85 HP Tristar VS 900 pump, Omnihub, H-Series Heater, FlowVis Flow Meter. 1 skimmer, 3 returns, 2 floor drains.
I will note that this PB came HIGHLY recommended, and is currently building MANY pools. We interviewed a few of his previous customers and ALL were very happy. We've dealt directly with him a few times, but we've mostly worked with his subordinates. I should also note that I'm an engineer and avid over-thinker. I've read the manuals for each piece of equipment at least twice, and read A BOATLOAD of these forum threads. Thank you ALL.

Pool is navy bean/irregular shape with StoneScapes mini pebble finish. Finished was applied last Thursday. Acid washed on Friday and I started filling it. The water meter I installed said we put in about 14,700 gallons, fill was complete in about 12 hours (3am Saturday). The equipment pad didn't have power until Saturday afternoon.
I have the full blown salt water pool test kit (Taylor 2006C + Salt). There was no Chlorine, pH was off the scale, and acid demand said I needed more than a gallon of muriatic acid. I've read the NPT, StoneScapes, and PebbleTech start-up guides...I was starting to get really worried about permanent damage to the pool finish. Actually..I was starting to freak out.
The PB's equipment guy didn't show up until Monday (Yesterday) to turn on the pump and set everything up. I told him about the test results. Equipment guy was very lackadaisical and told me not to worry. They put shock in the water and left 4 jugs of muriatic acid - 1 of them was about 1/2 full. Nothing else. Said they would try to get back later this week to balance the water...but it could be Friday. He told me today, via txt, that the pool would be fine without chlorine for 6 or 7 days. This morning there was no more chlorine, and the pH is still off the chart. I wasn't shown how to use the acid..but I watched a few videos and I had a clean bucket for diluting..so I added the rest of the bottle. As of this afternoon the pH is still off the scale, but the amount of acid demand went from 7 drops to 5 drops.
I took a sample to the local pool store. She ran the tests...and then looked at me and said "Uhm, sir..do you need help with your water chemistry?". HA!! I explained the situation. She sold me a small bottle of sequestrant for the start-up (as recommended) and two small bags of shock. She told me to come back tomorrow and she'd have some chlorine tablets that I could buy individually. She said that I shouldn't focus TOO much on anything other than the pH for now and keep an eye on the alkalinity.
Results
LSI *HIGH*
TDS 200
pH 8.6 (top of her scale)
TA 62
CH 83
no optimizer - haven't added any yet, per startup instructions
FC 0.1
TC 0.1
CYA 5 - haven't added any yet, per startup instructions
Phosphate 750 (she said to not sweat this)

1) WTH do I do? I was prepared to fight the pH for the first month (and year) - but I wasn't expected to be thrown into it. These forums have the same advice - add 1/2 of what the test calls for and wait a day...then a 1/4, etc.
2) Dude did NOT set the green arrow on the filter to the initial/clean pressure. I didn't remember to check it until today, it's on 20PSI exactly. Do I just go with it for now and clean it in a month?
3) Water is REALLY clear. After all the reading I fully expected it to be cloudy with plaster dust - but it's clear. With the lights on last night, I could see some particulates drifting, but I wouldn't call it cloudy at all.
4) I really wanted to avoid adding chlorine tabs to the skimmer because of impact to the equipment - do I just suck it up because that's what a lot of people do? I haven't read too much about using the liquid chlorine, if I go that route and add stabilizer will I be good?
5) Yes..I have been brushing the heck out of it...that's the only thing that I felt was within my control, so I been brushing it 3 times a day.
6) FlowVis says I'm running at 60GPM with the pump at 80%. So that's 4 turnovers/day. It's NOT at 100% (per recommendations), but 4x/day is good, right?

I had to get this out..thanks

 

[shwn2405]

G, welcome to TFP first thing I would worry about is testing your own water with your own test kit. We don't like providing guidance on pool store testing because they're usually not correct. So go ahead and bust out that Taylor kit you said you had. Give us the results and post back. But definitely the first thing you need to do is add some LC and then muriatic acid to lower that ph. But we need YOUR test result

 

[HermanTX]

First - very happy to see the pool completed and now focus on the fun part.
Suggest you get the pH under 8. Your TA is pretty low so be careful not to add excessive MA.
You show pool store test results but you also have your own Taylor kit. Best to continue to test your own water to gain experience and confidence.
While using tabs is OK since your CYA is zero suggest you put them in a floater rather than in the skimmer. The better alternative would be to buy Liquid Chlorine and pour in front of a return.

Surprise there was no comment on your CH. That needs to be raised.

Suggest you provide a copy of your start up guide from the pebble mfg. or the pool builder as that gives specifics on TA and CH targets in addition to pH.

Just base your filter pressure starting at 20 psi and plan to backwash at 25psi. Keep brushing.

Suggest you update your signature under your profile setting with your pool volume, your equipment list and test kit.

Don't over worry as it is not that bad. Do your own testing and post those results tomorrow.

 

[texasAUtiger]

Everything HermanTX just said. The pool is not THAT delicate to be ruined in a week. Just follow the start up manual, focus on pH and after a few days the chlorine per most start up guides. You are gonna be fine.

 

[HermanTX]

Pool is navy bean/irregular shape with StoneScapes mini pebble finish. Finished was applied last Thursday. Acid washed on Friday and I started filling it. The water meter I installed said we put in about 14,700 gallons, f

I researched the StoneScapes website (NPT is mfg.). They recommend to follow the NPC (National Plaster Council) start up guide which I attached. That provides the targets for all levels.
Suggest you purchase or plan to purchase (or your PB will supply) after testing some Liquid Chlorine (raise FC), Muriatic Acid (lower pH), Baking Soda (raise TA). Calcium Hardness Increaser. There are some clear steps to address pH and TA first.

 

[geonjay]

Thanks for the replies and support Today's values @ 8am ET (and my interpretations of corrections needed to reach Taylor's recommended values for a gunite pool)
1) pH = 8+. Acid Demand - 2 drops still shows 8+; 3 drops showed ~7.2 (My daughter and I agreed on the color). ~27oz Muriatic Acid
2) FC = 1.6ppm (8 drops of 871). CC = .2ppm. 4.5oz Chlorine Compound (I added 1 pack of smart shock yesterday around 8pm - bag says it treats 12,000 gallons).
3) TA = 50ppm; ~15lbs Baking Soda
4) CH = 80ppm; ~15lbs Calcium Chloride
5) CYA = test was clear; 3.75lbs CYA
Watergram showed SI to be ~ -0.1

I understand that the acid will lower alkalinity and the baking soda will raise it - what should be my approach to avoid yoyo'ing?
I'm leaning towards letting the PB add the CYA and CH (and maybe even the TA correction) because of the quantities and liability.
Would adding 3 Chlorine erosion tabs into the skimmer be sufficient for now? Should I ask the PB about adding an erosion feeder onto the pad?

 

[HermanTX]

Adding baking soda will not increase pH so you can do that with the PB supplies. The MA addition is needed as well.
don’t worry about CYA right now. Not good to put tablets in skimmer. Can you put them in a floater? You will need the floater in future as back up anyway. Any tables will also release some CYA as well. The only drawback is that they have to dissolve to make any impact. You could use LC now for faster increase in FC.
With regard to CH - discuss that with the PB to add that with his supplies.

 

[geonjay]

Last night I added 1 bag of HTH "Super Shock" that treats 13,500 gallons. 30 minutes later I added 13oz of MA. Pool supply place didn't get the chlorine tabs yesterday. I hit 3 walmarts, a Lowes and a Home Depot - no tabs anywhere..but I did find the HTH shock, so I grabbed 2 bags.

pH = 8+, same as yesterday 2 drops was still 8+ but 3 drops looked like 7.2 or 7.0. I'm wondering if our white fence is messing with my ability to read the scale. I need to get a pH meter, but I still haven't decided between the $10, $40, or $90 one.
FC = 2.6ppm; CC .2ppm
TA = 50ppm
CH = 90ppm

I added another 13oz of MA and will test again this afternoon. Thanks!

 

[HermanTX]

Just so you are aware, the HTH Super Shock is made of Calcium Hypochlorite. so this will increase your CH level as well as your FC. Be sure to to test before adding anything to increase CH as you do not want to overshoot.
At HD you can purchase liquid chlorine. That would be better to use to increase your FC. only.
Watch your TA as that will drop with adding too much MA. It is best to add MA in stages.

Do you have a salt test kit? Such as the Taylor 1766. You will need that to verify salt levels before you start your SWCG.

 

[texasAUtiger]

You say you have read the manuals twice and are an avid overthinker. I'd suggest reading this:

ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry

There are several items things every pool owner should know about swimming pool water. We share details on the basics of Pool Water Chemistry.

www.troublefreepool.com

and simply following it.

Freelancing by doing things like adding shock, are contrary to the advice you will get here. So I guess you have to decide...

PS I opened my brand new pool less than a month ago, with zero experience, and just followed the things in the article and what you read on here. All my numbers are great, my water looks great, and I don't spend much time or money on my pool, I just swim and enjoy.

 

[geonjay]

HermanTX - I do have the Salt Kit add-on on the way - it's been "on the way" for 2 weeks. I won't need it for another 3 weeks, but now I'm glad that I ordered it early. That's a good point about the HTH shock raising CH - that's also why I've been careful about avoiding anything that already contains stabilizers. A lot of these things tend to ALSO contain something else.

Tex - Thanks for the link. I've read pretty much all of the Pool School articles - they're great. I'm being careful about what I purchase/add because the PB is SUPPOSED to be taking care of the pool for the first 4 weeks - all supplies and labor. It's not worked out that way. They are SUPPOSED to be here today - the guy called me this morning to let me know that he'd be here this afternoon. I asked "You will be bringing something to chlorinate the water with, right? The chemistry is really out of whack and no one has been here since Monday" - to which he replied "Uh..yeah, i can swing back by the office and pick up a few chlorine tabs for you". We'll see what they show up with and what the next steps are.

 

[setsailsoon]

Jay,

Congrats on your new pool and starting off right with TFP recommendations. Please review

• ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
• FC/CYA Levels
• Recommended Levels

Ask any questions you may have. Our methods rely on reliable test results that you perform yourself using a recommended test kit. Beware that we often find "free" pool store test results can be far from accurate that in turn results in incorrect additions of maintenance chemicals. Until your kit comes I would refrain from any action other than adding 5 ppm of FC and maintaining that level. I see you've been a member since 2020 so I'm guessing you know about our recommended test kits.Test Kits Compared. You are way ahead of the curve starting with TFP. Sadly many end up here out of a frustration driven search for a better way because pool store recommendations resulted in a very bad pool plus a lot of $$$ down the drain. We don't sell anything so you can always be sure we're making science-based recommendations, not trying it increase profits. When you get ready to start your swg it's real easy to get your initial settings using Pool Math "effects of adding". If you need any help just let us know.

Again, congrats and please don't hesitate to ask any questions.

Chris

 

[geonjay]

Pool guys came today; cleaning guy and chemistry guy. They were very thorough in their testing (also had a Taylor kit). They added 2 tablets to the floater, and left me what I BELIEVE will be enough to finish out the month - the tablets DO have a stabilizer built-in and they did NOT add any more stabilizer. They said that they'll adjust the CYA to the recommended level when they add the salt. They also added quite a bit of calcium chloride (I didn't catch the exact measurement, I was distracted) and MA. They also added a different type of shock than what I'd been using. They said my approach to easing into the MA was good, and to stay on top of the pH. Then they packed up and said they'd see me early next week. I'll keep an eye on everything and report back.

 

[setsailsoon]

Jay,
In case your not familiar with Pool Math I've pasted a page for "effects of adding" showing how much FC and CYA is added for each trichlor tablet. Most I've seen are 7 oz. Some are supposed to be 8 oz. You can select almost any pool chemical from the drop down list then enter the rest of the information and voila! all the impacts to your chemistry are shown. You can select swg and the brand/model and you get the information for your initial settings. This time of year look to add about 3-4 ppm each day. Using this tool I had mine lined out in just a couple days. Check the bag of tablets to be sure there aren't "other ingredients". Don't use them if they have "blue" in the name as this means you very likely are adding metals.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

[HermanTX]

They added 2 tablets to the floater, and left me what I BELIEVE will be enough to finish out the month - the tablets DO have a stabilizer built-in and they did NOT add any more stabilizer. They said that they'll adjust the CYA to the recommended level when they add the salt.

While tablets does increase both FC and CYA, it is a slow process because the full tablet has to dissolve to get the full benefit noted by @setsailsoon . So I would test daily to ensure your FC is at the proper level and supplement with Liquid Chlorine. Don't use the HTH Shock you had before because they also added calcium hardness increaser. So you really need to test to determine where you are each day. If I remember correctly you have very low CYA so any FC will burn off in direct sunlight. So that is a key point to keep on top of and liquid chlorine can help raise FC quickly and let the tablets maintain it.

They also added quite a bit of calcium chloride (I didn't catch the exact measurement, I was distracted) and MA. They also added a different type of shock than what I'd been using. They said my approach to easing into the MA was good, and to stay on top of the pH.

So testing CH will tell you what they did. And with regard to pH, did they leave you any MA or do you have some? The tablets will help to maintain the pH as you can see on the effects post that it will decrease pH. So you do not want to tank your pH too low but something to test daily. It would be also good to test your TA as that is affected by the MA additions.
So testing right now should be pH, FC, CH and TA for the next couple of days to see how all the additions shifts the numbers.

I think you find that you cannot be effective in testing weekly as your PB is doing with his service team. You need to stay on top of it.

 

[geonjay]

Great replies, thank you!
This morning's results
pH = ~7.3
FC = 3.6ppm; CC .2ppm
TA = 30ppm
CH = 160ppm (if I went from 90 to 160 in a day, that's 70lbs..so he added around 12lbs of Calcium Chloride?)
CYA = perfectly clear

Chris - which Hanna Phep tester are you using? I really think a reliable pH tester would make something easier. Are you happy with the one you have?
HermanTX - They left me 2 x 1 gallon jugs of MA. 2 have already been put into the pool. The TA dropped another 20 ppm since yesterday, I'll keep testing it. Today is the pool's 7th day birthday!

Thanks again all!

 

[Bperry]

Great replies, thank you!
This morning's results
pH = ~7.3
FC = 3.6ppm; CC .2ppm
TA = 30ppm
CH = 160ppm (if I went from 90 to 160 in a day, that's 70lbs..so he added around 12lbs of Calcium Chloride?)
CYA = perfectly clear

Chris - which Hanna Phep tester are you using? I really think a reliable pH tester would make something easier. Are you happy with the one you have?
HermanTX - They left me 2 x 1 gallon jugs of MA. 2 have already been put into the pool. The TA dropped another 20 ppm since yesterday, I'll keep testing it. Today is the pool's 7th day birthday!

Thanks again all!

Beware the pH meters are finiky and require frequent calibration. The drop test has been more reliable for me.

 

[wireform]

Your TA is way too low. No lower then 50 to 70-80 would be perfect

 

[Bperry]

Beware the pH meters are finiky and require frequent calibration. The drop test has been more reliable for me.

Also note that pH has a big range of “good” depending on a number of factors. Keeping it in the 7’s is generally pretty good. If you track and manage the CSI, the pH is a huge contributor to CSI. I generally let the CSI value tell me where my pH needs to be (within reason) and not get stuck on keeping it at an exact number.

 

[HermanTX]

TA = 30ppm
CH = 160ppm (if I went from 90 to 160 in a day, that's 70lbs..so he added around 12lbs of Calcium Chloride?)
CYA = perfectly clear

You definitely need to raise TA as most start up guidelines target 80ppm for TA. Raise TA - use baking soda....it has little effect on pH.
Since you have pucks in the water there will always be some release of acid from those pucks which decreases pH so don't overuse MA to maintain the pH. At 7.3 your are good and would be best to let it rise to 7.8/8.0 on your scale before you add more MA. If you test daily that should be fine. But continue to brush 2x per day to capture the plaster dust.

CYA = perfectly clear

did the pool service say anything about this? Keeping your FC at 3ppm with no CYA is fine. But you will need to monitor your FC daily. Ideally you want to bring the CYA up to the 30-50ppm range. Did they provide you any stabilizer? The pucks will also release some stabilizer but again that is a slow release so don't expect it to register very quickly.

CH = 160ppm (if I went from 90 to 160 in a day, that's 70lbs..so he added around 12lbs of Calcium Chloride?)

This is fine and I would not do anything until the pool service returns. The CH can be gradually increased over the next several weeks to above 200 but I would let it ride right now but continue to test it.

BTW - have you tested your fill water? You need to determine how much TA and CH that will impact as you lose water to evaporation.