Condensate chemistry

Blackdirt Cowboy

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Aug 16, 2024
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Central Texas
Pool Size
17300
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I have a question and don’t mean to hijack the thread, but what makes the condensate corrosive? Isn’t the condensate just the water coming out of the air? Maybe I’m thinking about this wrong, but I also have no idea how these heaters work. I assume they work the same as a tankless water heater.
 
Colder water going through pipes on a hot day == glass of ice water on a hot day. Condensate.

Condensate sitting on metal will corrode.
 
Basically, any heater that uses the exhaust gas (also called flue gas) to “preheat” the incoming water can cause that flue gas to condense into a liquid. Flue gases contain not only water vapor but also excess or unburned fuel, oxides of nitrogen and sulfur, and particulates. When that gas condenses into a liquid, the water is very acidic (mainly from the formation of nitric and sulfuric acid) and that can damage anything it comes into contact with.

It’s very similar to why automobile exhaust systems will “rot out” in cold climates - the gasoline or diesel engine creates hot exhaust that will condense into liquid in the exhaust pipe and muffler. If the engine and car isn’t allowed to heat up (short drives with a cold engine), all that water will sit in the muffler and exhaust pipe and cause corrosion.

Natural gas tankless water heaters operate in a similar fashion. The gas is burned to heat the primary coil but the exhaust gas also warms up the incoming water. This increases the efficiency of the water heater but one can not use standard galvanized chimney pipes for the warm air discharge, you have to use PVC. The exhaust air is not hot enough to melt the PVC but it contains lots of liquid water vapor (saturated vapor) that will leave behind condensate in the duct work. That condensate can be very corrosive. Most modern units try to capture and drain the condensate but some will invariably get into the exhaust.
 
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Thanks. That all makes sense. I didn’t realize these heaters preheated the water with the exhaust gas.

Only some heaters do this. Pentair has their ETi heater that utilizes an exhaust gas preheater in order to get their stated 98% efficiency. I’m sure the other big pool manufacturers have their own models. The downside to these heaters is not only the condensate issues but the fact that these heaters are incredibly expensive to repair and almost no pool tech knows how to repair them. HVAC techs could probably figure it out but they rarely will work on pool equipment as it’s not profitable for them. So when failures happen, they can be costly to fix and take a long time to find someone knowledgeable enough to work on them.

I would not recommend getting these types of heaters. Their efficiency gain is simply not worth the added cost. Standard gas heaters are the industry workhorse and they can often be repaired by a somewhat handy homeowner.
 
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Natural gas tankless water heaters operate in a similar fashion. The gas is burned to heat the primary coil but the exhaust gas also warms up the incoming water. This increases the efficiency of the water heater but one can not use standard galvanized chimney pipes for the warm air discharge, you have to use PVC. The exhaust air is not hot enough to melt the PVC but it contains lots of liquid water vapor (saturated vapor) that will leave behind condensate in the duct work. That condensate can be very corrosive. Most modern units try to capture and drain the condensate but some will invariably get into the exhaust.
Case in point, I have a tankless water heater, the exhaust is PVC, but there is a metal critter/bug screen over the end of the exhaust. It is made of galvanized metal. the moisture in the exhaust is corrosive enough to cause this screen to rust.
 
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Condensate water is basically distilled water with no alkalinity, which means that the pH can drop below 4.5 very easily.

Low pH removes any protective copper oxide patina and allows oxygen attack on the elemental copper metal.
 
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