Concrete pool up north

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hahaha thanks ladies :cool:

Yesterday was a heavy, heavy :cry: I know I have a tendensy to exaggerate my own problems that's really is nothing to what many people have to face with hurricanes and other things that you can be striked by. Nevertheless! It was it a big big dissapointment when my daughter found one loose glass mosaic pieces on the bottom of the pool yesterday. Not only one but three, I could easily pick them up with my hand.
after a lot of thinking and diving with goggles I think I know what the problem is!!! But I would love to hear if my theory seems possible before I take action to repair it.
I think the loose tile's is caused by natural movement in the construction and beacuse I forgot(or didn't think it was necessary!!!!!) to lay a grout line on each side of the glass mosaic and the surrounding tiles. I think the porcelaine tiles didn't have any space to expand.
So now when I have had a 24 hours to think things over there's nothing to do but empty the pool and chip off all of the glass in the bottom and do it all over again but with a grout line on each side this time. I can't step into the pool when not everything is perfect it just doesen't feels right.
I haven't really understood that this has happend yet :( I have been so careful to make everything as perfect as I could and choosed the best materials that I could find and still I have to make such big repair after just one year :evil:

On the positive note! :) I have a few new things that I have done that I will show you after I have decided what to do with this "small" problem that I have to face.

Thanks for any opinions!
//Mats[attachment=0:325idve5]loose glass mosaicIMG_0866.gif[/attachment:325idve5]
 

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Mats, my friend, how are you? Well, I hope.

I have made that similar mistake on two tile jobs I have laid. It is so darn frustrating to have what you think is perfect work and then find out it was anything but.

The lesson for me was....about every 6-10 lineal feet, you have to put in an expansion joint. In your case, that would've been tough but, if you were to do it again, perhaps make that outside grout joint out of polyurethane caulk and not use any grout.

I recently had to replace about 200 sq ft of my porcelain tile decking for a somewhat different reason and it broke my heart as well as my back. Laying tile is an unforgiving task and can be very frustrating.

The proper fix for your pool is likely to have to drain the pool at some point. :( :(
 
If its any consolation, you have many others on this site who appreciate your true craft. Like me, you have inspired many to pursue their own builds with dedication and attention to detail. Also everytime you share your troubles many positives are borne with the knowledge and lessons learned.
 
Mats, don't get downhearted about it. I had to take down about 300 sq ft of stucco because of a mistake on my build. Stucco applied one trowel at a time.

Everyone makes mistakes, it's how you handle them and fix them (or don't) that defines you. You are doing the right thing.
 
I'm so greateful for all the love and support that you show me and have showed me over the years, it means a lot! It's just that I'm so sad for what happend at them moment that I haven't been able to reply. This was something that I didn't needed at this stage. It feels that I'm cursed to never been able to relaxe. So we have decided to hire someone to take care of the problems in the pool, when I have figured out what needs to be done. I refuse to make a halfhearted solution so I have to be sure this time. The pool will be emptied tomorrow and I will by then know a little bit more what needs to be done.
I'm afraid that this will be a bigger surgery then I think and will cost us a fortune. But I try to look at it with a positive attitude, that I have done so much myself and with that saved a lot of money and that makes it a little bit easier but still very painful :cry: .

Again! A big thank you to all the wonderful persons out there for the support and love. I'm thrilled and very, very greatful.
//Mats
 
Hallo again!!

I'm a bit desperate I have to confess. I have signed up on the John Bridge tile forum and waiting for them to activate my account.
So in the meanwhile I will through out the same question here as will do over there! What have happend to the bonding between the thinset and the poolwall????
I'm perplexed over how well covered every tile plate are with thinset and how loose they sit to the wall. I have chipped off an area where they wasn't stuck to the wall at all, and all those plates were fully covered with thinset. So why on earth haven't they bond to the wall better??? There is no signs on any movement on the pool walls. On other location they not loose but they don't seem to be glued especially hard either.
I did the preparation very well by grinding all the concrete and used a primer before the tileing so I can't understand what's wrong. I used the strongest thinset(according to Mapei) a two component thinset called elestrorapid.
There will be a contractor over here tomorrow and I hope he can undertake the job and tile the pool again, the thing is I can't decide how much of the tiles that I have to remove and I would love to hear a second opinion before I decide tomorrow. Can I espect the remaining tile to sit still if I leave them as they are and don't empty the pool again?

I can end this post by saying that my spirit and self esteem is non existent at this stage :( It's soon three years since I started this project and I'm about to give up before I have finished it.[attachment=2:22bwf0lq]loose tile platesIMG_0122.gif[/attachment:22bwf0lq][attachment=1:22bwf0lq]loose tile platesIMG_0119.gif[/attachment:22bwf0lq][attachment=0:22bwf0lq]loose tile platesIMG_0120.gif[/attachment:22bwf0lq]
 

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Hey, Mats,

What a bust! First, it seems like you have been getting a good bond between the tile and the thinset but a very bad bond between the concrete and the thinset....is that right?

How did you apply the thinset...to the wall or to the tile?
 

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Maybe the primer was the problem. I was once advised to try Sika 105 tanking underneath some glass mosaic tiles. I'd never used it before but the local Sika agent advised it. I used it in a pool before the thinset (Weber Aqua, not epoxy) and after a month the tiles started coming off. On examining the tiles we saw that the tanking had delaminated of itself. there was tanking stuck to the tile and the wall and it was split like a leather hide. I never use tanking these days and I don't have these types of problems. I think sometimes suppliers are trying to get you to buy expensive "extras" for their own benefit when in fact you're better off without them.
Or maybe the wall wasn't fully dry when tiled. Thinset will tolerate a damp wall to an extent, but epoxy won't. It may not have seemed damp, but once the area was sealed with the epoxy coating, the moisture had nowhere to go and built up between the epoxy and the concrete.
 
Mats,

I am 100% in line with solarboy. I was going to go there slowly to eliminate some other things but it appears that epoxy thinset did not bond to the wall. About the only think I know of that won't bond to epoxy is moisture.

If there was no moisture, then that sealer has to be suspect. I know an epoxy to raw concrete bond is rock solid.
 
Thanks Dave and Solarboy!
The thinset that I have used is a cement based two component thinset. So I was stuck with mixing ration between the liquid and the cement base. I remember that it worried me when I did the job beacuse I coulden't get the thinset as "sticky as I wanted to and beacuse of that I thought that I would have problem to get the back sides fully covered with thinset, so I tried my best to twist them in place and obvious I did a pretty good job according to those square meters that I have removed today.

My amateur view of the surface is that it coulden't be much better. I had a roof over the pool during the whole process so the walls was not exposed to any weather when I did the job. As I mentioned before did I grind every little square inch of the surface with a hand grinder and vacumed it clean so I was sure that there were no film left that you can get after you have poured concrete against a board. The pool was poured in the end of February 2009 and I started the tileing job in the beginning of July so the concrete had plenty of time to dry out.
I'm also starts to suspect that the primer has caused some sort of film that the thinset coulden't penetrate. When I removed the tiles today and felt on the wall with my hand it felt like there was a soap coat on them, sort of slippery.

So what do you suggest? Do I need to remove everything and start all over again? Or do you think that the pressure of the water will hold the remaining plates in place?

I'm really confused on how to proceed
 
I'm also starts to suspect that the primer has caused some sort of film that the thinset coulden't penetrate.
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Sadly, that's what I suspect as well.

I know it's not consolation, but I just had to remove about 300 feet of my decking tile because of an installation mistake I mad. I know better now but not at the time.

Can you remove the thinset from the back of the tiles? If not, can you still get the same tiles?

You know where I'm headed......I have seen the quality of your work and I just don't think you can live with trying to "just make do".

I think the nature of your character will say, "I must fix this"

Wish I could be there to help you.
 
Dave my friend :)
To interacte with people like you here on TFP makes it easier!
Right now I have to realize that this actually has happend!! That bucket of primer that cost me 75usd, will cost me around 13000 usd :shock: that's my price estimation to get the pool covered with the same type of plates and with the same grout and I'm afraid that's at the lower end of the scale and it's just insane.
The thought of all the work that I put in to get the Kerapoxy in place is making me sick. There is no way I will do it again so I have to hire someone to do it for me.
Everyhthing was coming along so nicely before all this happend and I had high expectations that EVERYTHING would be finished to week 27 when I start my vacation. Maybe there could be a little work with the wood deck left but besides from that everything would be done so we could relax and enjoy this beautyful backyard that we have accomplished. But instead..... Worries about how to raise more money and the hassle to find someone that I could trust and has the time to take on the job in a timely manner.

Anyway Dave! I wish you a pleasant Saturady evening, mine is soon coming to an end and I will dream sweet dreams about tiled pools :cool:
 
I'm back with a likely explanation after a "good" night sleep :shock:
The thisnet that I've used was like I said before Elestrorapid. As the name says it's cure itself rapidly and the reason for that was that I shoulden't have to wait three weeks to fill water in the pool. Could the quick burn of this thinset be the reason that it doesen't appears to have the "strenght" to go through the film of the primer??!! Obviously it has burned very well against the plates.....

There is one comfort in this whole situation and that is that it's not coming down to my tileing skills that the plates fall off and as strange as it may seems, that means a little to my ego.
Now there is nothing else to do but accept it and find the best solution possible. I have promised myslef not to curse what happend again.
You know peace and love and leafy green vegteable is the key to everything :-D

later guys :cheers:
 
I succeded to get a agent from Mapei to take a look at the pool on Friday. I hope we can arrange something that somewhat benefits our situation.
I have spoked to many craftsmen that work with tiles as a proffession and none of them can understand what have happend. So it will be very interesting to hear Mapei's opinion.
I'll keep you posted.....
 
Henry Porter said:
I succeded to get a agent from Mapei to take a look at the pool on Friday. I hope we can arrange something that somewhat benefits our situation.
I have spoked to many craftsmen that work with tiles as a proffession and none of them can understand what have happend. So it will be very interesting to hear Mapei's opinion.
I'll keep you posted.....
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Good move ! Someone has to take some responsibility, as someone who has tiled many many pools, you have done a very good job and there was no problem with your method. As a hunch, I think it will be the primer that is found at fault.
 
Good luck Mats. As meticulous as you were about building that pool, I just can't imagine it being something you did. Also, someone on this forum would have caught a mistake if you weredoing something wrong. There's just way too many smart people around here. And you are one of them :goodjob:
 

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