Cloudy Spa Questions

[stratocaster1422]

Got a Clarity8 hot tub in August. Just under 500gal. I can't seem to go more than 2 months without having to change the water out due to inability to clear cloudy water. I have had a pool for years and religiously follow all the TFP advice and have had great success with my pool.

I first started out only using the Dichlor that came with my tub. I inevitably skyrocketed my CYA because I stupidly wasn't watching it. Doh! You know what happened next. - drain and fill.

The next fill, I used a little Dicholr the first couple weeks to get CYA up to like 30, then used 12.5% "pool shock" moving forward. I ended up eventually getting lazy and let the water go too long without checking it. Water went cloudy and it was taking too long for my patience to clear, so I did a dump of the water again.

I then decided to tryout the Frog. Things have been going mostly great for 2 months. For the past couple weeks, I've noticed extra cloudiness in the water when the jets are on high (aerators are closed). On Friday, I noticed the water went completely cloudy and my grey cartridge was completely empty. My laziness yet again got the better of me as I was expected more time out of the cartridge. First one was used up in almost 4 weeks, and this one was just knocking on the door of 3weeks. I definitely used the tub more recently which would add to the faster utilization. But now that my water is full on cloudy it's taking forever to clear it. I shocked it multiple times using MPS and added 1tbsp Dicholr as a "startup" for the Frog with a new grey cartridge. Yes, I'm watching my pH and TA as well. It's progressing, but REALLY REALLY slow.

I added 1oz of Dicholr today, did a shot of 2oz 12.5% bleach, and just did another. Tub seems to be eating through the bleach pretty fast as I am checking my FC levels around 20min after adding and I haven't seen the level rise about 1 yet. (using the TFT droppers). So I figured I'd keep doing that until I see things stabilize and/or the water clears?

Thoughts? Or should I just drain/fill when the weather cooperates. I'm in Massachusetts.

 

[Mdragger88]

did u do an initial Ahhsome purge of this tub?
If not , do so before draining & refilling
This is imperative as biofilms are present even in new tubs as they are wet tested at the factory & nasties proliferate in transit to you. This often sets people up for failure right out of the gate as they have a nascent chlorine demand that grows over time.
After that follow this guide

How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)?

If you have a question about any information within this Sticky, please start a new thread for yourself where you will receive very quick responses to your specific questions. Thank you! Introduction There are two main things to consider when maintaining your hot tub water, Water Balance and...

www.troublefreepool.com

Be aware MPS is only an oxidizer- it is not a sanitizer.
Chlorine is both an oxidizer & a sanitizer.
The tub must have adequate amounts of sanitizer at all times Regardless of the use of MPS Lest nasties will grow.
Mps also interferes with the cc’s test unless you have the interference regeant.
MPS only complicates things in my opinion & provides people with a false sense that they have “shocked” their spa.

In the interim whilst waiting for the Ahhsome- you can attempt to do a SLAM Process if u wish.
the end of slam criteria are cc’s less than 1 & crystal clear water. No oclt necessary.
*follow the FC/CYA Levels
2oz of 12% bleach is only enough to raise fc by about 4ppm in your tub. This is likely well below shock level for your cya. Be sure to use PoolMath to calculate additions.
Also keep in mind most liquid chlorine is 10-11% by the time it hits the store if it started out as 12.5%.
Most find it’s more trouble than it’s worth to slam a tub & choose to purge, drain, & refill.
You know the basics as you use them in your Trouble Free pool - they are similar in a spa with the exception of the extremely high bather load since the water volume is so much smaller. It’s basically people soup that must be dealt with as such after every use as the hotter temps & heavy amounts of organics can proliferate rapidly in a spa.

P.S. :
Ditch the frog - it only complicates matters- regardless of it’s presence the FC/CYA Levels should be followed at all times & the fc level should never go below minimum for your cya.

 

[dan1333]

Yeah I'd follow Mdragger's advice and I'd ditch the Frog as I think it's downright ineffective and expensive and then read that chlorine sticky thread.

You almost got it right and realized your CYA was out of control but then instead of dichlor/bleach method you went with dichlor/mps. I'd completely ditch the mps too.

Read that sticky, purge with ahhsome, and then follow the advice in the sticky which basically means you'll prob use dichlor until you get 30 CYA or so and then you'll switch to strictly bleach (pool chlorine) going forward. At that point you'll really only put two things in your hot tub.... Daily chlorine (and after use) to keep FC levels up and muriatic acid to keep PH down when you see it rise too high.

Later you can add a few more things that make maintenance easier like borates (helps keep PH stabilized longer) or a drop in salt water chlorine generator to keep your FC levels up (basically letting you skip daily liquid chlorine additions) the days you don't use it.

The makers of Ahhsome also made a new product called Aqua Clarity which is used weekly and just helps ensure your pipes stay clean and sanitary. I wouldn't say it's absolutely necessary if you follow the TFP method but I use it just for more peace of mind and knowing that it's taking care of any biofilm issues that are growing.

Hang in there, you WILL get it under control by following all the advice from TFP and it will actually be easy. The time I spend on hot tub upkeep is extremely minimal now and I always have crystal clear water. My water never gets gross or cloudy and I could probably keep it going a year or so if I wanted to. However I just purge and refill at 6 months just because.

 

[stratocaster1422]

Thanks guys!

One thing I didn't mention is I also tried some clarifier, which I don't think did squat.

I have done one pipe clean using Leisure Time Pipe Clean and I still have one unopened bottle of it. That was done when I made my first mistake with the CYA overload. I have some Ahhh-some in my cart waiting to go.

When you say MPS messes with the CC's test: is that when you do the DPD test, and it turns pink on it's own again after turning clear? I do the DPD test, soln will turn clear, and if I let it sit a few seconds it goes back to being pink.

I'm no longer confident in my FC readings. The test using the R-0600 and comparator is saying FC is at 1, but DPD I can't get a reading because of what I just described. I've put like 7+oz of 12.5% bleach....which btw is a kind of old bottle left over from the beginning of this past pool season.

 

[Mdragger88]

The fas dpd test will turn pink again if left to sit. This is a common occurrence & why proceeding to the cc portion of the test quickly after the fc level is noted is important & just being expedient with the test in general.
It does this faster if there are cc’s present.
Mps shows up as cc’s on the test so you can see how this would make things more complex since monitoring cc levels accurately is imperative to your spa water’s health.

 

[stratocaster1422]

Thanks! I've never noticed it turn pink again with my pool, but my CC's have pretty much never been that far out of wack and no use of MPS.

My CYA levels are definitely under 20 as I've barely used any Dichlor (1oz + 1tbs total) in the current water, so I'm assuming I'll just keep trying to have the FC's sit in the 3-5 range until the water's clear? Once I get the Ahh-some in and it's warm enough I'll do a purge of the water.

EDIT: WOO! my CC's are THROUGH THE ROOF. I've literally never seen the solution THAT red ever in my life when adding the reagent. FC is currently at 3 and I think it was at 3.5 an hour ago. Water is still cloudy.

 

[Mdragger88]

Slam (shock) level for a cya of 20 or less is 10ppm.

Keep it at SLAM level (10ppm) until your cc’s are 1 ppm or less AND water is crystal clear.

 

[stratocaster1422]

Oops, I forgot to move the slider over to SLAM. That was target FC.

I have to say that since mid Dec when I started using the Frog system. The "WAF" levels have been much higher than before. No complaints about chlorine smell and she doesn't complain about needing to shower after due to overly dry skin and breaking out.

WAF = Wife Acceptance Factor.

 

[mindtrip]

I would also look at TDS if I were you. After my recent fiasco of trying to "overshock" my tub to prevent algae growth, then getting algae anyway, then adding lots of 12.5% liquid chlorine to get rid of the algae, my tub is now staying cloudy and seems to have stabilized. But all that growth/sanitation/ organic compound breakdowns/ muriatic acid to combat the high pH of adding all that chlorine (produces NaCl as it interacts with the bases in the pool) got me thinking--these compounds don't off-gas or disappear, and high TDS can be a cause of cloudiness. Just checked mine--TDS is over 2400, and from what I'm reading it looks like 1500 ppm is considered max TDS before problems occur. I'm at about the 3-month mark so will dump and refill once we have a warm weekend again, but you might look at your TDS concentration to see if that's the problem.