Cloudy Pool

[gboulton]

The new pool store said that it is cloudy because of the dead algae. We have killed it, but it is still floating around. She recommended either shock and swim or 2 shock packets. Also that our alkalinity is off. Here are our results from today -

Free chlorine 1ppm
Total chlorine 6.55 ppm
Combined chlorine 5.55 ppm

Ok...

Let's drop everything else for a minute, and focus on the statement and numbers above.

The pool store just told you that you have killed the algae.

Then they handed you test results that clearly show a high level of combined chlorine, and low free chlorine...meaning the chlorine is actively being used killing something.

Common sense tells you these things can not both be true. Either you have killed the algae (which the pool store says), or you have not (which the test results say).

Jason said it earlier in the thread:

I suspect that this is simply something the pool store people are making up to explain away the fact the they don't know what is happening.

 

[linen]

So can there be any recommendation based on these results or are we on hold until we get a test kit?

gboulton makes a great observation.

Is it possible your wife wrote it down wrong and CC was actually FC (and FC was CC)?

Either way to answer your question, I would lean toward getting that kit ordered and hopefully it will be at your place in two days (and hopefully you will be home soon too)and then get to work on it.

 

[foosboy2]

I don't think so but both of us are completely frustrated! How can these pool stores be so messed up? The reason we are trying to do it right now without a kit and through the pool stores testing is because we would like to use the pool during this weekend. But if there is nothing we can do then I guess we wait. :-(

 

[foosboy2]

Based on the pool calculator with our latest readings and our pool size, I think my wife should start with .5 of a 1lb bag of shock and carefully add 5.0 oz of the acid in the deep end of the pool.

 

[ultra800_96]

Not trying to be harsh, so please don't take it that way. Just trying to be helpful:
From reading through the posts in this thread, it is obvious the Pool Stores do not understand what the heck is going on, but they're using the "If you can't dazzle em with intelligence, baffle them with BS". Telling you your filter is bad because of water tests? Total nonsense to me. As your finding out, the guessing, inconsistent tests, miracle cures, put this in & it will be all better, does nothing to solve the problems & leads you around in circles. It also delays the cure to your problems.
If you would bite the bullet, get a proper test kit that this site recommends, follow the shock "process" through, you would end up understanding a lot clearer as to what is going on in your pool, along with curing the problems. No guessing, no miracle cures, just plain good experienced advice from the mods on this site. I joined in '09, lurked & delayed getting the kit, finally did, & haven't looked back. Now, every spring, after filling & circulating a bit, with my own testing, it's clear to me what needs to be done. I haven't made a trip since to a pool store for a water test, or any chemicals, and unless I truly need some other supplies & hardware for the pool, I don't step foot in their door. I don't need to.
Sincerely, trying to help,
Dave

 

[gboulton]

Dave,

I must have typed the same thing, but much "harsher", about 5 times now. Each time, I close the window fearing I was being "nasty" some how, thinking someone would eventually come along and say what was on my mind much more pleasantly than I was managing to. Seems I was right. :lol:

Thanks!

==============

foosboy,

All I'll add is this...

As Dave said, you're finding out why many of us are here. We GET frustration...the frustration of making eleven trips to nine locations to spend $329.87 on a bunch of chemicals that someone at the pool store recommended based on un-reproducible test results.

It's simply not in our nature.

Order a test kit, spend a couple days reading Pool School, and get ready to attack this puppy this weekend with knowledge, confidence, and a whole lot of friendly help.

 

[ultra800_96]

Very well put gboulten!

 

[march2012]

It is possible your pool store has the right test kits.

Here is an example that leslies sells online.
http://www.lesliespool.com/Home/Pool-Ch ... 81329.html

I can get the pH test and comparison tube at leslies (pH/phenol red is taylor #0004)
To test chlorine you need the DPD powder taylor 0870 and the titrant 0871
combined chlorine test uses taylor 0872.

Your pool store may have these.

 

[foosboy2]

Okay, for the short term my wife is headed to Walmart to get the 6 way drop test kit while the TF100 is in transit. This kit was in the section of comparing test kits but it only reads total chlorine. What is the next step? Is it to take the measurements and post them and to put the values in the pool calculator with the targets being troublefreepool.com. What is 31.45% - 22 Baume? Is that Hydrochloric acid 31.45%? Also there was reference that I could have a local copy of the poolcalculator but I did not seen anything only the app.

Mitch
Michigan
8000 gal, IG, Fiberglass, Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter, new filter August 2011
Free chlorine 1ppm
Total chlorine 6.55 ppm
Combined chlorine 5.55 ppm
pH 7.6
Hardness 280 ppm
Alkalinity 180 ppm
Cyanuric acid 10 ppm
Copper .02 ppm
Iron .27 ppm
values are from the pool store yesterday not from the kit.

 

[Bama Rambler]

31.45% is HCL (hydrochloric acid).

Run a set of tests with the 6-way kit and post those results. We'll make a decision about what to do once we see those.

 

[foosboy2]

Thank you.

Little change. Wife decided to wait and let me do it. So the kit is ordered and due Friday or Saturday and this will give me extra time to learn and study everything. Look for results Saturday.

Thanks again for your help.

Mitch from sunny Mexico

 

[foosboy2]

Okay I am back in town and the kit arrived today. I have run all the tests (basically twice) and here are the results.

FC .15 the first time .10 the second. The water never really turned pink. It was more of a clear with a slight pink tinge
CC .15 the first time .10 the second. Same thing with the color just a clear with ping tinge
PH 7.8
TA 260 the first time 290 the second
CH 360 the first time and 340 the second time. The second time I did the test with the 5 drop compensation for metal. Also seemed like if let is sit still for sever minutes that it would be more purple
CYA 0


Mitch (Hopeful)
Michigan
8000 gal, IG, Fiberglass, Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter, new filter August 2011
Free chlorine .1 ppm
Total chlorine .2 ppm (calculated I guess from FC + CC)
Combined chlorine .1 ppm
pH 7.8
Hardness 340 ppm
Alkalinity 290 ppm
Cyanuric acid 0 ppm

 

[gboulton]

FC .15 the first time .10 the second. The water never really turned pink. It was more of a clear with a slight pink tinge
CC .15 the first time .10 the second. Same thing with the color just a clear with ping tinge

These two aren't making a lot of sense. The TF-100 doesn't measure in hundredths of a ppm. That is to say, .15 ppm isn't a reading it could give. Well, ok, I suppose it COULD with a bunch of dilution and calculation, but not by the standard directions.

So...can you perhaps clarify these readings for us? Tell us how many drops the test took.

You say .15 the first time on the FC. Do you mean 15 drops? 30 drops? 3 drops?

Same question for CC.

PH 7.8

Not terrible, wouldn't hurt to bring it down to 7.5 or even 7.2 however.

TA 260 I am going to redo this test now

Yeah, we're probably going to want that to come down, since a TA that high COULD cause some issues in a fiberglass pool...more importantly, it'll likely make keeping the pH down a bit of a chore.

I, personally, probably wouldn't sweat the "formal" process of pH down->aerate->pH down-> etc right now. If the TA's that high, the pH will come up on its own pretty quick, and imo, getting the chlorine right and the water clear is the more pressing issue here. I'd just manage the pH around 7.2-7.5 consistently right now, then we can worry about pH when shocking's done. Just my own opinion, others may have valid reasons to differ, of course.

CH 360 the first time and 340 the second time. The second time I did the test with the 5 drop compensation for metal. Also seemed like if let is sit still for sever minutes that it would be more purple

A little high, but not something I'd sweat until after shocking's done, especially since your second reading's pretty darn close to the recommended levels.

CYA 0

First thing we want to attack, imo. Let's use some stabilizer and pool calculator to get this up to about 30 before doing anything else. At 0, the sunlight will consume the chlorine almost as fast as you can put it in there, and maintaining even a low shock level will be difficult and pricey.

==============

Experts, if I've missed something, by all means jump in and correct me!

 

[foosboy2]

Chlorine on TF-100 was .5.
It was 3 drops to make it from clear with a pink tinge to completely clear.

So stabilizer first or multiple things at once. And where can I buy stabilizer at this time of night. That is the only thing that I do not have on hand.

Mitch (Hopeful)
Michigan
8000 gal, IG, Fiberglass, Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter, new filter August 2011
Free chlorine .1 ppm
Total chlorine .2 ppm (calculated I guess from FC + CC)
Combined chlorine .1 ppm
pH 7.8
Hardness 340 ppm
Alkalinity 290 ppm
Cyanuric acid 0 ppm

 

[gboulton]

Chlorine on TF-100 was .5.
It was 3 drops to make it from clear with a pink tinge to completely clear.

Ok. 3 drops would be a reading of 1.5, not .5

Both the FC and CC test in the TF-1000 are .5 ppm PER DROP. So, count the drops, multiply by .5 (or, if you prefer, count drops, divide in half..same thing).

1 drop = .5 ppm
2 drops = 1 ppm
3 drops = 1.5 ppm

And so on.

As for the "pink tinge"...be sure you're using enough of the DPD Powder (R-0870) and 10ml of water. The color ought to be a rather distinct and obvious pink...it should stand up and say "PINK" to you. *heh* No worries about using too much of the powder...if it doesn't all dissolve, that's ok. I might, if it was me, re-run that test JUST to be sure.

You do have it right on looking for clear though. The water should turn clear...not "very light pink' but clear. I always just set my tube on the white railing of the pool when in doubt...if there's even the faintest tinge of pink left, that white background will make it obvious.

So stabilizer first or multiple things at once. And where can I buy stabilizer at this time of night. That is the only thing that I do not have on hand.

Wal Mart probably has it if you have one near by. Just look for "stabilizer" or "conditioner" or "instant water conditioner" or something along those lines. Remember to check ingredients..you want Cyanuric Acid. Just use pool calculator to calculate how much you need to raise from 0 to 30, and put it in a sock in the skimmer, or broadcast over the deep end. Note that the CYA level won't come up right away...it can take up to a week for it to come up...so you may need more bleach than you'd think for the first couple of days, to maintain shock level. That's fine..just maintain the shock level of 12 called for at a CYA of 30.

============

I've gone back and looked at the whole thread here, and I don't think i'm missing anything here....if I am, I'm sure someone will be along shortly to put me in my place.

 

[foosboy2]

I got the math. I had 1 drop one time and 3 drops the second time. Sorry for the confusion.

Regarding sufficient DPD Powder (R-0870), yes the second time I used ALOT because of the pink tinge the first time and because of what I read about not being able to use too much.

I also caught one pool store before they closed and got chlorine stabilizer and I just verified that it has Cyanuric acid 100%.

So I will broadcast the stabilizer in the deep end and shoud I also add liquid chlorine or shock now or wait. A

Mitch (Hopeful)
Michigan
8000 gal, IG, Fiberglass, Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter, new filter August 2011
Free chlorine .1 ppm
Total chlorine .2 ppm (calculated I guess from FC + CC)
Combined chlorine .1 ppm
pH 7.8
Hardness 340 ppm
Alkalinity 290 ppm
Cyanuric acid 0 ppm

 

[gboulton]

No worries, if you got the math, it's all good. Just wanted to make sure it was clear.

No reason not to start tonight if you wish. Personally, I'd be up early and start then, so i could spend the day monitoring and testing...but perhaps you're a night owl, and have a well lit pool.

Just remember everything in the How To Shock Your Pool article, and be ready to keep after it for a few days.

Keep us updated, we love pics! Especially Before and After!

 

[foosboy2]

I have been waiting all week so I am starting tonight!

What is "shock level" in the " How To Shock Your Pool article"? I thought I put the troublefree pool standard of 6 in the pool calculator and that tells how much liquid chlorine to add.

I also thought I read something somewhere about putting stabilizer in a sock in the skimmer basket whould result in having to "clean the lines". I cant find the article though. Do you have a comment on this?

Mitch (Hopeful)
Michigan
8000 gal, IG, Fiberglass, Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter, new filter August 2011
Free chlorine .1 ppm
Total chlorine .2 ppm (calculated I guess from FC + CC)
Combined chlorine .1 ppm
pH 7.8
Hardness 340 ppm
Alkalinity 290 ppm
Cyanuric acid 0 ppm

 

[gboulton]

I have been waiting all week so I am starting tonight!

Don't blame you

What is "shock level" in the " How To Shock Your Pool article"? I thought I put the troublefree pool standard of 6 in the pool calculator and that tells how much liquid chlorine to add.

The Chlorine/CYA chart has all the info you need.

I also thought I read something somewhere about putting stabilizer in a sock in the skimmer basket whould result in having to "clean the lines". I cant find the article though. Do you have a comment on this?

I've not read anything like that, but that doesn't mean it's not out there. I haven't had any problem with mine, but I've only done it twice. YMMV, of course.

 

[foosboy2]

Ha, Okay, I got PINK this time for the FC but still the CC was a clear pink tinge.

So the next reading is:
FC is 5.0
CC is 0.5
TC is 5.5

I think that I let this run till morning and then check it before any sunlight hits the pool unless someone tells me otherwise.

Mitch (Progress???)
Michigan
8000 gal, IG, Fiberglass, Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter, new filter August 2011
Free chlorine 5.0 ppm
Total chlorine 5.5 ppm (calculated I guess from FC + CC)
Combined chlorine .5 ppm
pH 7.8
Hardness 340 ppm
Alkalinity 290 ppm
Cyanuric acid 0 ppm