Closing pool for winter first time

[Tom1986]

Hi everyone! I'm in Canada and I'm closing my pool by myself this year. I've watched some videos but it seems like a lot of pools are different and hoping to get some advice for mine and clear up some confusion regarding blowing out lines and make sure I dont cause any damage.
Firstly, I have 1 skimmer with 2 holes (see pic below). I was told the one closest to the pool is connected to the main drain and the other one connects to the pump.
Secondly, there are 2 pipes that are underground that connect to my system (see pic below). 1 connects directly into the pump and the other appears to connect to my chlorinator, which I assume goes out to the jets.

Thirdly, I don't believe there are any valves that control water flow besides the pump's settings (circulate, waste, backwash, etc). There are those 3 valves but I wont be touching the 2 that are for the solar panel. The third one at the bottom looks like it blocks off the pump inlet. Not sure if I need to do anything with that?

Question 1) It seems like a simple system, but Im not sure how the main drain works. How does water flow? Does it even connect to the pump or just connects to that first hole in the skimmer and then goes to the pump?

Question 2) With this simple system, do I even need to blow out the lines with a vacuum? Or can I just lower the water below the skimmer then turn the pump to circulate (or filter?), remove the filter and pump plugs, and let the air evacuate the lines and just use Styrofoam rope and anti freeze in in both holes before plugging them? As well as antifreeze with a funnel into the return jets before capping them too?

If I do have to blow out lines, can you tell me how exactly? I have a shop vac.

Thank you so very much for taking the time to help me,
Tom

 

[Newdude]

If I do have to blow out lines, can you tell me how exactly? I have a shop vac

I would remove the pump and SWG at the red circles and blow each line back towards the pool. You should be able to hold the vac hose tight enough to the pipe. If not, a few wraps of duct tape will seal it.

Then drain the solar removing the blue circles



Is it the big shop vac ? Small/Medium ones don't usually cut it.

but Im not sure how the main drain works. How does water flow?

It daisy chains from the drain to the skimmer, then onto the pump. With no valve you won't be able to air lock it while blowing, so foam rope will be needed before plugging the drain line. I've heard it's easier said than done because the foam rope wants to float, but get creative zip tie-ing it to a dowel or rod of some sort if you have to.

do I even need to blow out the lines with a vacuum?

You need any water in the pipes to be below the frost line. 4-10 feet depending how North you are.




You'll want a gallon of RV antifreeze added to the skimmer and return lines as insurance in case water gets in over the winter, or you didn't get it all out.

 

[Tom1986]

It daisy chains from the drain to the skimmer, then onto the pump. With no valve you won't be able to air lock it while blowing, so foam rope will be needed before plugging the drain line. I've heard it's easier said than done because the foam rope wants to float, but get creative zip tie-ing it to a dowel or rod of some sort if you have to.

Thanks so much for your reply!

Will I be able to drain the water below the skimmer with this setup though? Won't it just start sucking air from the skimmer?

I guess if I can't go lower than the skimmer then I'd have to blow from the skimmer as opposed to from the pump since the water would just flow back up into the skimmer?

I just checked and the outlets are like 6 inches lower than the skimmer. I've got this small elbow/90 degree pipe to be able to put anti freeze in the jet outlets but no clue what to do if the jets are still under water.

 

[Newdude]

Will I be able to drain the water below the skimmer with this setup though? Won't it just start sucking air from the skimmer

No / correct. You'll need a submersible pump to lower it further than the skimmer.

I just checked and the outlets are like 6 inches lower than the skimmer. I've got this small elbow/90 degree pipe to be able to put anti freeze in the jet outlets but no clue what to do if the jets are still under water.

That works or you can use blow through bungee plugs for the returns. Pressure opens the rubber bungee plug and seals itself when you shut off the blower. Then add antifreeze from the equipment pad side.

 

[Tom1986]

No / correct. You'll need a submersible pump to lower it further than the skimmer.


That works or you can use blow through bungee plugs for the returns. Pressure opens the rubber bungee plug and seals itself when you shut off the blower. Then add antifreeze from the equipment pad side.

Thanks again for the reply. I just picked up a sub pump. Based on your suggestions and my own googling, I will write out the steps I plan to do in order. Please let me know if I I missed anything or the order is incorrect:

1) drain the water on waste until the skimmer sucks air
2) stop the pump
3) take out the plugs from pump and the sand filter as well as pressure guage
4) use sub pump to drain below the jets
5) disconnect the swg and pump at the red circles you marked
6) set filter to circulate and blow out the lines. I should expect water to come out of both the outlets and one of the skimmer holes.
7) disconnect the solar at the blue circles and let water drip out
8) Do I need to blow the main drain that is connected to the skimmer? Or just maybe suck like 500mL of water, put in the Styrofoam rope and antifreeze and plug the holes?
9) reconnect solar, pump, and swg
10)set filter to winter
11) put anti freeze in the jet outlets and close them up
11) put anti freeze in both skimmer holes with foam rope and close them up

Thanks so much for your help!

 

[Newdude]

1) drain the water on waste until the skimmer sucks air
2) stop the pump

***Babysit it*** when it's close. Better yet, get most of the way to a empty skimmer and then use the submersible pump.

8) Do I need to blow the main drain that is connected to the skimmer? Or just maybe suck like 500mL of water, put in the Styrofoam rope and antifreeze and plug the holes?

It should lower itself to the water level. Get foam rope in there and plug it so it doesn't fill back up. Antifreeze will just ooze out the open end. But do antifreeze the skimmer and return lines.

I take my equipment apart and bring it inside. I take all of my drain plugs (and whatever other small parts i have leftover like o-rings) and put them in ziplock bags inside the pump basket. Even if I forget what I did with them, I'll find them by accident when hooking the pump back up / priming it.

 

[Tom1986]

***Babysit it*** when it's close. Better yet, get most of the way to a empty skimmer and then use the submersible pump.


It should lower itself to the water level. Get foam rope in there and plug it so it doesn't fill back up. Antifreeze will just ooze out the open end. But do antifreeze the skimmer and return lines.

I take my equipment apart and bring it inside. I take all of my drain plugs (and whatever other small parts i have leftover like o-rings) and put them in ziplock bags inside the pump basket. Even if I forget what I did with them, I'll find them by accident when hooking the pump back up / priming it.

So it's 2am and -4 outside. I really underestimated how long it would take to drop the water level below my jets with a 5hp sub pump (14 hours). I happened to be at a pool store the other day for an unrelated reason and the owner recommended I hook the shop vac up to the skimmer, set pump to filter, and blow from there to do the whole system without having to disconnect anything.

After hooking the shop vac up to the skimmer, it did not work. I dont feel any air coming through the pump nor the returns. How long would I need to keep it on before noticing air move through? There seemed to be some air loss with bubbles near the end of the hose but should be minor compared to the output of the shop vac.

Did I do something wrong? Theres still water in the pump. I didnt let water drain from the filter or the pump as i planned to open them after most of the water went out the outlets.

Is it just not powerful enough? It's 2.5 php. Is the entire path Im asking it to pass through(including the solar on roof) too much? If I upgrade to a 5hp shop vac, will that do it? Its rare but after all the googling, I have read a couple people say they turned it on vaccum instead of blow.

What should I do? It's salt water so it should withstand freezing a bit better. Am i at risk of damaging the lines?

 

[Newdude]

Is it just not powerful enough

Likely. Depending on the complexity of the system, doing it in stages may be enough for it to work.

Its rare but after all the googling, I have read a couple people say they turned it on vaccum instead of blow.

Vacuuming will pull some water but also likely leave a bunch.

It's salt water so it should withstand freezing a bit better.

No. It's freeze point is technically lower but not by anything you'd ever notice. A large body of water (instead of a glass of water) will be off by a degree or two on its own.

Am i at risk of damaging the lines?

Not immediately. Anything below ground will be insulated by the ground and take up to a few days to cool. By the time the overnight cold starts making some temperature change, it's already warming back up for tomorrow. Your frost line in Canada is probably in the 4 to 5 ft range so you are going to want to clear at least that much water in the pipes.

 

[Tom1986]

Likely. Depending on the complexity of the system, doing it in stages may be enough for it to work.

Vacuuming will pull some water but also likely leave a bunch.

No. It's freeze point is technically lower but not by anything you'd ever notice. A large body of water (instead of a glass of water) will be off by a degree or two on its own.

Not immediately. Anything below ground will be insulated by the ground and take up to a few days to cool. By the time the overnight cold starts making some temperature change, it's already warming back up for tomorrow. Your frost line in Canada is probably in the 4 to 5 ft range so you are going to want to clear at least that much water in the pipes.

I upgraded to a 6hp / 170 cfm shop vac this morning and was able to clear out the lines from the skimmer. It wasnt working perfectly at first but then I duct taped all the connections between the vac and the skimmer to reduce the air loss and it helped increase the pressure.

Thanks again for the advice!! That was stressful last night but happy to have it all sorted out now. Next year I will start the sub pump before I go to bed.

 

[Newdude]

Did it clear the whole system in one shot, or did you isolate the lines at the equipment pad ?

Also, Yay !!!

 

[Tom1986]

Did it clear the whole system in one shot, or did you isolate the lines at the equipment pad ?

Also, Yay !!!

I cleared it via the skimmer.

I bought 2 vacs with the intention of returning 1:
Both rigid models:
5hp/130 cfm: $100
6hp/170 cfm: $140

I hooked up the 5hp and noticed it was moving air through but only a bit of water was coming out of the jets.

I switched to the 6hp. It was a bit better but still didn't seem like enough. I switched to the long stiff arm adapter and went to town on duct taping all the connections. After that, it started spraying water through the jets

If it didn't work, I was going to do it from the pad in pieces and return both because I really wanted to be have something strong enough to just hook to skimmer and move through the system. I wonder if the 5hp was strong enough but just that I needed to duct tape more. I think I'll keep the 6hp since it's only $40 more.

 

[Newdude]

The shop vac is one of those things that you don't know you need until you need it. When something floods, you'll be kicking yourself for not having a bigger model, no matter how big you went.

Once you have it, it does come in handy on many projects. I like using it to clean up the mess from all my indoor projects. The Dyson doesn't need to be gummed up with spackle dust / saw dust / etc.

Glad it went well.