Clorox XTRABlue trashed my pool?

[Chrissu]

I would like to Thank Everyone in this group for your help, your advice and your knowledge. It is a pleasure to belong to this group.

I have what I suspect is a copper stain issue. The copper and CYA levels are both very high and I’m getting stains on the plaster. I suspect my own negligence is the cause and now I’m trying to fix it.

I purchased a gas heater and a chlorinator three years ago. A local pool service company installed them both and the chlorinator is downstream of the heater. They didn’t install a bypass valve from the heater and I didn’t know to ask for one. Now I have copper problems which I assume are caused by the cholinator. I have also learned that chlorine tabs cause high stabilizer issues over time.

Assuming I get rid of the chlorinator and fix the water with water changes, and stains, will the heater be OK to use going forward? Or, will it forever leach copper in high amounts?

 

[Newdude]

Hey Chrissu and Welcome !!!

Which heater do you have ? (Make and model #).

I bet the pool store or service sold you most/all of your copper in 'Xtra blue' pucks, algecides and 5 in 1 magic potions. It's a common additive in branded pool chemicals which is why we avoid most of them.

 

[Mdragger88]

1st things first- you need your own test kit-
K2006c or tf100/pro
See —> Test Kits Compared
When it comes you can then do your own cya test to determine how high your cya really is so you can exchange the appropriate amount of water & get your cya down to a reasonable level (30-50ppm).
Until it comes you should just add 5ppm worth of liquid chlorine each day - nothing else.
No more pucks. Remove them now.
If their test is even close to reality then your pool is currently quite unsanitary & acidic even though it is clear.
The copper in pucks & potions may inhibit algae but they do nothing to sanitize.
If the chlorinator is downstream of (after)the heater, the last thing in the return path, it shouldn’t be eroding it. A sustained ph below 7 however will have a corrosive effect.
Do you have a way to test your ph yourself currently?
Also - along with the heater make & model Post a pic of your equipment pad.

 

[Chrissu]

Hey Chrissu and Welcome !!!

Which heater do you have ? (Make and model #).

I bet the pool store or service sold you most/all of your copper in 'Xtra blue' pucks, algecides and 5 in 1 magic potions. It's a common additive in branded pool chemicals which is why we avoid most of them.

It’s a Raypak natural gas heater and the model # is P-R266A-EN-X. I get the pucks from Amazon but you are right about the extra blue! They are Clorox XtraBlue chlorinating tablets. How did you you know?

 

[Chrissu]

Newdude,

Thank you for identifying the copper source! XtraBlue by Clorox, who knew!

I will spend a small fortune doing water changes until the copper is back to a normal range of 0-0.2ppm.

I will also order the test kit recommended by TFP for $150. Sounds like a great investment.

What is the best way to remove the purple copper stains? I tried a little 50/50 mix of muriatic acid and water earlier today while doing a water change and it seemed to work but might need a couple of applications. I’m also considering some products by jacksmagic.com that claim to be able to remove copper stains. What route do you and others here recommend to remove the copper stains I have now?

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum.
If you wish to remove the copper stains, do NOT drain the water yet. You will need to do a Sulfamic Acid treatment and then drain the pool. And the heater MUST be bypassed to do the treatment.

 

[Chrissu]

1st things first- you need your own test kit-
K2006c or tf100/pro
See —> Test Kits Compared
When it comes you can then do your own cya test to determine how high your cya really is so you can exchange the appropriate amount of water & get your cya down to a reasonable level (30-50ppm).
Until it comes you should just add 5ppm worth of liquid chlorine each day - nothing else.
No more pucks. Remove them now.
If their test is even close to reality then your pool is currently quite unsanitary & acidic even though it is clear.
The copper in pucks & potions may inhibit algae but they do nothing to sanitize.
If the chlorinator is downstream of (after)the heater, the last thing in the return path, it shouldn’t be eroding it. A sustained ph below 7 however will have a corrosive effect.
Do you have a way to test your ph yourself currently?
Also - along with the heater make & model Post a pic of your equipment pad.

Hi mdragger, per you and newdude, I just tossed the remaining XTRABlue picks into the garbage. I also ordered the TF100pro test kit.

I will start adding 5ppm of Walmart basic bleach daily. How much does that work out to daily for a 10,000 gal pool?

Here are a few pictures of the pool pad as it stands now. I have temporary disconnected the gas heater and will reconnect it once the water is back to normal.

 

[Chrissu]

Welcome to the forum.
If you wish to remove the copper stains, do NOT drain the water yet. You will need to do a Sulfamic Acid treatment and then drain the pool. And the heater MUST be bypassed to do the treatment.

Hello mknauss, I bypassed the heater on Saturday so I’m good there but thanks for the recommendation.

I’m did about a 40% water change on Saturday and then added enough sulfamic acid to treat 10,000 gallons, which is my pool size. It worked a little but today I reached out to tech support at jacksmagic and they told me that the CYA level would hinder the effectiveness of sulfamic acid. For that reason, I started a second 40% water change today. Does the CYA level not matter?

 

[proavia]

Get liquid chlorine at Pinch-A-Penney
There are 3 locations listed in the Tampa area.

 

[Chrissu]

Get liquid chlorine at Pinch-A-Penney
There are 3 locations listed in the Tampa area

 

[Chrissu]

Hello Provia, I can do that but hear me out and let me know if I’m missing something here. I had read on TFP that plain bleach is a less concentrated version of the same thing and is less expensive as well. My wife is at Walmart every few days buying groceries and whatnot so it would be easy for her to start bringing home bleach in one gallon containers as needed. I’m not not sure if I want to go back to a salt water system yet as the last one I had was a pain to maintain. Thoughts?

 

[proavia]

Regular bleach is usually 6%-7.5% - and can contain fablic protection polymers and other stuff you do not want in your pool.
Liquid chlorine is usually 10% or 12.5%. Walmart has a Pool Eseentials chlorine. Not sure if they keep it in stock year round in Florida. Pinch-A-Penny was recommended as they usually have good prices on chlorine (and it will get you out of the house every once in awhile). I think P-A-P sells chlorine in 2.5 gallon refillable carboys.

A pool maintained with TFP methods and a SWG is easy to care for. It's all about testing and maintaining the water chemistry. Once you get it all dialed in it will take 5 minutes a few times weekly and maybe 30 minutes on Saturday to test, adjust and brush. A salt water chlorine generator is the best and most economical way to maintain a pool.

If you are considering going SWG in the near future, order the TF-Pro Salt test kit. It includes the stirring device and salt testing reagents, along with the other reagents and test supplies needed.

 

[mknauss]

they told me that the CYA level would hinder the effectiveness of sulfamic acid.

That is a new one on me. Let's see if @JamesW agrees.

 

[Chrissu]

Regular bleach is usually 6%-7.5% - and can contain fablic protection polymers and other stuff you do not want in your pool.
Liquid chlorine is usually 10% or 12.5%. Walmart has a Pool Eseentials chlorine. Not sure if they keep it in stock year round in Florida. Pinch-A-Penny was recommended as they usually have good prices on chlorine (and it will get you out of the house every once in awhile). I think P-A-P sells chlorine in 2.5 gallon refillable carboys.

A pool maintained with TFP methods and a SWG is easy to care for. It's all about testing and maintaining the water chemistry. Once you get it all dialed in it will take 5 minutes a few times weekly and maybe 30 minutes on Saturday to test, adjust and brush. A salt water chlorine generator is the best and most economical way to maintain a pool.

If you are considering going SWG in the near future, order the TF-Pro Salt test kit. It includes the stirring device and salt testing reagents, along with the other reagents and test supplies needed.

We have a super Walmart down the road and they have a decent sized pool dept. I will check it out to make sure they have essentials. Otherwise the p-a-p store is also nearby.

I appreciate the Swg feedback and will order the ft-pro salt. Is there a particular SWG that you recommend for a 10k gal system?

 

[JamesW]

I’m did about a 40% water change on Saturday and then added enough sulfamic acid to treat 10,000 gallons, which is my pool size. It worked a little but today I reached out to tech support at jacks magic and they told me that the CYA level would hinder the effectiveness of sulfamic acid. For that reason, I started a second 40% water change today. Does the CYA level not matter?

I do not know of any reason that CYA would reduce the effectiveness of sulfamic acid, but Jack's has more experience with sulfamic than I do, so they should know.

Maybe ask them to explain if they have actual logic and chemistry to back up their claim or if the claim is mostly based on anecdotal evidence.

 

[Chrissu]

I do not know of any reason that CYA would reduce the effectiveness of sulfamic acid, but Jack's has more experience with sulfamic than I do, so they should know.

Maybe ask them to explain if they have actual logic and chemistry to back up their claim or if the claim is mostly based on anecdotal evidence.

Here is what jacks tech support told me today.
My CYA is 160, over twice their max level supported of <70, so I can see why jacks insisted I get the level within their documented treatment range. The tech support guy sounded like he really knows his stuff.

 

[JamesW]

I don't know why it would matter, but it can't hurt.

Maybe ask them to explain why it makes any difference.

In any case, follow their instructions for their product and hopefully it will work well enough for you.

 

[proavia]

We have a super Walmart down the road and they have a decent sized pool dept. I will check it out to make sure they have essentials. Otherwise the p-a-p store is also nearby.

I appreciate the Swg feedback and will order the ft-pro salt. Is there a particular SWG that you recommend for a 10k gal system?

You may find the refillable carboys are cheaper and worth making the extra stop.

As for SWG, if you pool have no automation, something like the Circupool RJ30+ would work for your 10,000 gallon pool. We recommend a SWG that is at least 2x your pool volume.

Fill out your signature with pool, pool equipment (including manufacturers and model numbers) and test kit info. Be specific. This assists us in providing you help without needing to ask you each time.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/account/signature

 

[Chrissu]

You may find the refillable carboys are cheaper and worth making the extra stop.

As for SWG, if you pool have no automation, something like the Circupool RJ30+ would work for your 10,000 gallon pool. We recommend a SWG that is at least 2x your pool volume.

Fill out your signature with pool, pool equipment (including manufacturers and model numbers) and test kit info. Be specific. This assists us in providing you help without needing to ask you each time.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/account/signature

Signature updated, thanks!

 

[Newdude]

How did you you know?

Check out the individual post counts of the folks helping you here. We have been to ALOT of rodeos.

We got you now.