Circupool Edge -40 New install- Not producing Chorine as advertised.

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H

Herb Jahn

0
Sep 22, 2015
12
Kingsland, TX
Pool Size
13145
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
SWG Type
CircuPool Edge-40
Greetings all! I have been a long time member and reader and have learned so much from you all! To a testament to this forum, This is the 1st time posting a question as I can always find the answer in past posts! I have also found similar post on my question here but am hoping for some guidance on how to proceed with the vendor I purchased the Edge-40 from. If this gets long, I apologize in advance!

So, I installed the Edge 40 SWG on June13. I purchased the Edge 40 figuring it was over three times the size needed (pools is 13145Gallons). I started running the SWG at power level 2. I Run the pump/filter 8 hrs a day, 6hrs at night for evaporative cooling (We live in Texas!) and 1 hour twice a day to skim the pool. I started running the SWG at 2 bars (Approx. 20%) then upping it to 50% then 75% as It was not keeping up. I am now running it at 100% but still is not keeping up.

In the beginning of July, I wanted to get figure out if I had a high demand or if my SWG was not keeping up do i ran an OCL test
July 3rd @ 10:30PM- FC3.4 CC0.0 PH7.4 TA90 CH725 CYA60 SALT2800
July4th @ 7:00AM - FC2.8 CC0.0 PH7.4 TA90 CH725 CYA 60 SALT 2800
This test showed a loss of .6PPM overnight which is within the 1PMM minimum(close but still passed).

So now to test the SWG.
According to pool math for my pool, the Edge-40 running at 100%, should produce 1.7lb of chlorine in 24 hours which calculates to 3.9PPM if i run my pump for 6 hours so after the OCL test, I added .25 gallons of LC to get above the 3PMM Minimum and did a 6hour run of filter and SWG at 100% that night. The level went from 2.4PPM At 7/4/24 @9:30PM on to 4.8PPM at 7/5/24 @6:30AM. Which was only a gain of 2.2PPM.

Just to make sure I didn't have any Algae working in the background, I preformed a SLAM on July 13th. Once completed, I tested the SWG for Chlorine production for 6 hours at night. , Same 2.2PPM results

Before calling the vendor, I decided to add salt to get above the 3000 PPM hoping that might increase Chlorine production but no joy, Same results-2.2PPM in 6 hours.

Time to call the vendor. 1st thing they asked about was Phosphates which were at 417PPB According to the local pool test store. Here is their Response-

"After reviewing your water chemistry, I did notice your phosphate levels are around 500ppb, this can be contributing to your chlorine battle. To resolve this problem, I would recommend keeping the system on 100% output, back wash your sand filter, introduce a phosphate remover to the water run your pump and filter for 24-48 hours (per the phosphate instructions) then back wash your filter again until the water is clear. Typically, after this point you’ll start to see your fee available chlorine rise. Once your FAC gets to about a “4” start tuning down the system in 15% (one light at a time) increments. If it rises extremely fast turn it down in 30% (two lights) increments at a time, until your FAC stays around a “2-3” then you’ll want to stop adjusting the system."

They also sent me SWG Diagnostic trouble shooting guide which I tested Cell amps and came up with 6.7- that says the cell is working properly.

Here is my problem that I need you all for- Everything I read here at TFP says Phosphates add food for Algae IF there is an Algae outbreak. and I have read many of cloudy water stories after adding Phosphates remover and also read many who i call experts here, State they are running over 1000PPB and their SWG are working perfectly so i am reluctant to add that remover.


Current results are as follows per local pool store (my test results are similar):
FC5.0 CC0.0 PH7.6 TA80 CH725 CYA 60 SALT 3025 Phosphates 446

I want the vendor to send me a new Cell. They want me to remove the phosphates. Should i do Remove them to check that box or should I stick to my guns?

Thanks for all y'alls knowledge over the years!

Herb
 
I have a different CircuPool model, but all of the manuals specify an ideal salt level of 3500. You are at the bare minimum. Then run the filter continuously. You should not need a new salt cell.
 
We don't worry about phosphates because we keep our chlorine levels up high enough to kill any bacteria or algae that try to grow. For a CYA of 60 you need to be at a target FC of 4-9 ppm. Your generator can't get you to this level by itself. You need to add enough liquid chlorine to get to the high end of that span and then use the cell to maintain that level. The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship Remember that you can lose 2-3 ppm each day just from the sun during the summer. This is why, if you run your cell at night or only for short periods of time, you need to get to the top end of the target every day.
 
Up the chlorine via LC to 8 before doing a OCLT, let the pump go for 45 minutes and do the final test before you go in for the evening and that's the final number for the day then do a pre dawn check with the pump running minimum 30 minutes before testing and see what you achieve. No SWCG overnight.
 
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Phosphates are a junk parameter with no algae.

Stick a big buffet in the middle of the Sahara desert, ain't nobody showing up to eat it. Just like that. But the industry is fixated on algae control with all the algae they likely gave you by following their advice.

So if you've been following the rest of their advice, they're right. Phosphates will make your algae problem worse, and your cell won't be able to keep up.

But you'll have to play their games for any warranty work.
 
First, I agree with @wireform, do the overnight chlorine loss test.

After you have confirmed you don't have algae with OCLT, do this test... Find two consecutive days in the calendar that have a similar high temperature and cloud cover. Day 1: Raise your FC so that it can go 24 hours and still keep you in range using liquid chlorine, test 30 minutes later. Test 24 hours later. Note the loss. Day 2: Start when you finish the 24 hour on liquid chlorine test. Now, use that loss and setup your pump runtime and % output to create that amount of FC based on the 1.7lb/day. Wait 24 hours. If your FC is is the same as the previous end of 24 hour test, the cell is working as intended.
 
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Thanks Gentlemen, That was fast!

User777, sales brochure says minimum of 2800 but manual suggests between 3000 & 4500 and as you say they suggest an ideal amount at 3500 which i will regrettably do tomorrow. Just adding salt to get from 2800 to 3000 was noticeable but if that is what I got to do, then so be it! I'm just surprised I didn't see an increase in FC production when I brought it up to 3000...

Tin Foil Hat & Wireform, I brought up the FC level to 8PPM per your suggestions. I will have the filter off tonight and will check the FC loss in the morning.


Thank you all for the no Phosphate remover suggestion. I did not want to do that!

Herb
 
PoolStored said:
First, I agree with @wireform, do the overnight chlorine loss test.

Second, SWGs are just not good at RAISING FC. They are really good at maintaining FC. Because of this, I don't think the overnight chlorine gain test is accurate or valuable.

After you have confirmed you don't have algae with OCLT, do this test... Find two consecutive days in the calendar that have a similar high temperature and cloud cover. Day 1: Raise your FC so that it can go 24 hours and still keep you in range using liquid chlorine, test 30 minutes later. Test 24 hours later. Note the loss. Day 2: Start when you finish the 24 hour on liquid chlorine test. Now, use that loss and setup your pump runtime and % output to create that amount of FC based on the 1.7lb/day. Wait 24 hours. If your FC is is the same as the previous end of 24 hour test, the cell is working as intended.
Click to expand...
Thanks Pool Stored, I will do this this weekend.

FYI, I have not been relying on the SWG to get me to raise the FC level. What I have been trying to do is get the FC to 4.5-5.0 which I do with LC but three days in, I'm down in the 3's so more LC needs to be added. This is frustrating as the reason I went SWG is that we are traveling more and was hoping I would not need to dose with LC every 3-4 days...

I am hoping that adding Salt to 3500PPM and bringing FC level up a bit to say 6-8PPM during the day will allow the cell to produce the 1.7LB (3.8PPM for my pool) it is advertised to do! All of these suggestions make sense to me so we will check those boxes and see what happens.

Thanks again for the response!

Herb
 

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Newdude said:
Phosphates are a junk parameter with no algae.

Stick a big buffet in the middle of the Sahara desert, ain't nobody showing up to eat it. Just like that. But the industry is fixated on algae control with all the algae they likely gave you by following their advice.

So if you've been following the rest of their advice, they're right. Phosphates will make your algae problem worse, and your cell won't be able to keep up.

But you'll have to play their games for any warranty work.
Click to expand...
Thanks Newdude,

I am going to try these other recommendations before I put any Phosphate remover in and be hopeful that they work, If it does not, I guess there will be no other way than to "play their Game"!
 
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wireform said:
Filter pump can run but the salt cell NO. When adding salt the cell needs to be off for close to 24 hours.
Click to expand...
We have been cooler here this week so I have been running the filter/ SWG during the day so for OCLT, No filter or SWG will be running.

Thanks for the info on not running the SWG while salt is added. I didn't know that was a thing.
 
Herb Jahn said:
I'm down in the 3's so more LC needs to be added
Click to expand...
Then you are not running the cell and or pump long enough to maintain FC. You have no idea what your demand is, you need to test FC and change the cell for the demand.

All that being said, all of your results point to having algae (even if you can't see it), because you let FC get low. Do the OCLT first!
 
Ok, all,
I just want to follow up with you all as the SWG is still not producing he 1.7Lb in 24 hrs (in my pool according to pool mat would be 3.9PPM in 6 hours of run time).

Here is what I did since my last post:

on 7/26/24, I started a SLAM (SWG turned off) Raising the FC to 20PPM per pool math based on 60PPM CYA levels. I kept that level of FC for three days. After the third day, I added 40lb of salt bringing my level to 3750PPM. I also reluctantly added phosphate remover which brought my Phosphate level to zero. I cleaned my cartridge filters and l let the FC level drop to 9PPM and did a OCLT test overnight showed a loss of .6.
Test results on 8/30/24AM:
FC 8,5
CC .0
PH 7.4
TA 75
CH 700
CYA 40 -(dropped 20PPM. Maybe the phosphate remover? ordered CYA and will get it back to 60PPM)
SALT 3750

I turned on the SWG and have my filer run 8hours/day, 6 hours at night and two times a day ( 11AM& 4PM) for one hour to skim the pool.

FC level @ 9PM on 7/30/24 was 8.0PPM
FC level @ 7AM on 7/31/24 was 9.0PPM +1.0PPM -6hour run time
FC level @ 9PM on 7/31/24 was 6.5PPM
FC level @ 7AM on 8/1/24 was 7.5PPM +1.0PPM -6hour run time
FC level @ 9PM on 8/1/24 was 6.5PPM
FC level @ 7AM on 8/2/24 was 7.0PPM + .5PPM -6hour run time
FC level @ 9PM on 8/2/24 was 4.5PPM
FC level @ 7AM on 8/3/24 was 6.0PPM +1.5PPM -6hour run time

I can't come up with any other conclusion but that the SWG is not producing as it should. I will test FC level an will anticipate a 3.5-4.5 PPM at 9 tonight which will mean i need to add LC to get above 4( I'll probably bring it up to 8 or 9PPM)
1722717017875.png
Do you think i am correct or is there something i am missing??


Thank, Herb
 
1. Your CH levels are WAY too high. I've read that high levels interfere with SWG effectiveness. Get those levels down to normal.

2. Run your filter 24/7 with SWG at 100%.

3. Make sure you are properly cleaning those cartridges by soaking in proper cleaning solution and not just hosing down. You might have residual algae stuck in nooks and crannies. You can run your pump/SWG on recirculate while you do this.
 

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