Chris From Central California

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Okay, I have a stupid question. Why on earth are we using dichlor in new water to raise cya when there's no compelling need for that much chlorine? Did you buy dichlor or something? Which of the stabilized products got you into the CYA fix in the first place? Better off to wean now ;)

And if the current water is over 100, couldn't you just drain 2/3rds instead of wasting product by draining?

Maybe I missed something and will go back and re-read. Seems to me doing it this way will be a moving CYA-chlorine ratio target -- or at the very least, be confusing in terms of readings.
 
Swampwoman said:
Okay, I have a stupid question. Why on earth are we using dichlor in new water to raise cya when there's no compelling need for that much chlorine? Did you buy dichlor or something? Which of the stabilized products got you into the CYA fix in the first place? Better off to wean now ;)

And if the current water is over 100, couldn't you just drain 2/3rds instead of wasting product by draining?

Maybe I missed something and will go back and re-read. Seems to me doing it this way will be a moving CYA-chlorine ratio target -- or at the very least, be confusing in terms of readings.
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I was going by this? pool-school/temporary_pool_guide Is it wrong? Plus, I could not get the CYA below 100 with all the tricks (adding tap water to test, etc.)
 
Swampwoman said:
Okay, I have a stupid question. Why on earth are we using dichlor in new water to raise cya when there's no compelling need for that much chlorine? Did you buy dichlor or something? Which of the stabilized products got you into the CYA fix in the first place? Better off to wean now ;)

And if the current water is over 100, couldn't you just drain 2/3rds instead of wasting product by draining?

Maybe I missed something and will go back and re-read. Seems to me doing it this way will be a moving CYA-chlorine ratio target -- or at the very least, be confusing in terms of readings.
Click to expand...

I asked the same thing back on 11/12 ...

The Temp Pool guide is just that ... typically for inflatable <5000 gallon pools.

We generally do not recommend using dichlor to start-up large pools for all the reasons we have been discussing (high FC and low pH). But, that seems to be the direction MonsterPoolMan keeps leaning even though it is more complicated.
 
MonsterPoolMan said:
I am not confident with the solid stabilizor. The pool calculator says I need 110 oz? What kind?
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They are all usually the same if it is the granules.

You would use 110 oz (by weight) of the granules to get to 30ppm. Then a week after it is dissolved. Test your level and adjust if needed.
 
jblizzle said:
Swampwoman said:
Okay, I have a stupid question. Why on earth are we using dichlor in new water to raise cya when there's no compelling need for that much chlorine? Did you buy dichlor or something? Which of the stabilized products got you into the CYA fix in the first place? Better off to wean now ;)

And if the current water is over 100, couldn't you just drain 2/3rds instead of wasting product by draining?

Maybe I missed something and will go back and re-read. Seems to me doing it this way will be a moving CYA-chlorine ratio target -- or at the very least, be confusing in terms of readings.
Click to expand...

I asked the same thing back on 11/12 ...

The Temp Pool guide is just that ... typically for inflatable <5000 gallon pools.

We generally do not recommend using dichlor to start-up large pools for all the reasons we have been discussing (high FC and low pH). But, that seems to be the direction MonsterPoolMan keeps leaning even though it is more complicated.
Click to expand...

Crud, I didn't know it was for <5000 pools. Okay, tell me which CYA to buy please. I guess I need 110 oz to get it up to 30 CYA.
 
This guide covers smaller pools that have a pump and filter and which get completely drained and put away each winter
Click to expand...
... the first line of that Pool School Article :lol: :poke: :wink:

All the granules should be the same. Walmart should have the HTH brand if you like. There are a few reports of this being weaker than expected ... but you should not be in trouble adding the 110 oz.
 
No wrong per se...just making it all a little more complicated than needed...those instructions are for temporary seasonal pools (you know, like intex), which are usually much smaller, so the benefit of the dichlor bags for them would be they'd be more cost effective than buying that big 4lb container of stabilizer and then using using a teensy fraction of the bottle. Nonetheless, you *can* add your CYA that way...but it seems much more protracted at 27,000 gallons -- and your chlorine will be "unbuffered" all that time. And it could be as much as a week after your LAST DOSE to have a TRUE CYA reading! Which would make that 3 weeks out...

If you already have the dichlor, carry on, as there's no point spending more money than you need to. But if you haven't bought the dichlor yet, why not just use the CYA granules you need, use pool calc to determine exact dose, then forget-about-it for a week or so...longer in cold water...to even get a read (it will take longer to dissolve).

When you say you could not get it below 100, do you mean when you drained it earlier? Or are you just saying that you don't yet know if your reading is accurate -- eg. could be considerably higher right now?

What is your water level right now, and your CYA level right now? What I meant was why buy more CYA and try to dose it when you could just approximate how much MORE water you need to drain/change to get the right amount of CYA that's in your water already!

Eg. if you're at 100 ppm cya right now and the pool is 3/4 full...drain 2 more quarters, fill er up, and read your CYA -- should come in around 33! At 27,000 gallons, I'm thinking that should save you about $45 -- or if you were using the liquid, more like $100+.

And if the readings wrong, well, just drain more ;)

Just trying to help you simplify it. The fact that your CYA got to well over 100 means you've developed a reliance on those stabilized products and you now need to kind of train yourself to think a little differently -- eg "I need just this, so I'll add just this..." "I need to always measure my FC, not just assume adding one pack of blabity blah"..."I will avoid adding hybrid products so that I can get comfortable with controlling specific variables..." etc. You know, BBB pool-owner affirmations ;)
 
Swampwoman said:
No wrong per se...just making it all a little more complicated than needed...those instructions are for temporary seasonal pools (you know, like intex), which are usually much smaller, so the benefit of the dichlor bags for them would be they'd be more cost effective than buying that big 4lb container of stabilizer and then using using a teensy fraction of the bottle. Nonetheless, you *can* add your CYA that way...but it seems much more protracted at 27,000 gallons -- and your chlorine will be "unbuffered" all that time. And it could be as much as a week after your LAST DOSE to have a TRUE CYA reading! Which would make that 3 weeks out...

If you already have the dichlor, carry on, as there's no point spending more money than you need to. But if you haven't bought the dichlor yet, why not just use the CYA granules you need, use pool calc to determine exact dose, then forget-about-it for a week or so...longer in cold water...to even get a read (it will take longer to dissolve).

When you say you could not get it below 100, do you mean when you drained it earlier? Or are you just saying that you don't yet know if your reading is accurate -- eg. could be considerably higher right now?

What is your water level right now, and your CYA level right now? What I meant was why buy more CYA and try to dose it when you could just approximate how much MORE water you need to drain/change to get the right amount of CYA that's in your water already!

Eg. if you're at 100 ppm cya right now and the pool is 3/4 full...drain 2 more quarters, fill er up, and read your CYA -- should come in around 33! At 27,000 gallons, I'm thinking that should save you about $45 -- or if you were using the liquid, more like $100+.

And if the readings wrong, well, just drain more ;)

Just trying to help you simplify it. The fact that your CYA got to well over 100 means you've developed a reliance on those stabilized products and you now need to kind of train yourself to think a little differently -- eg "I need just this, so I'll add just this..." "I need to always measure my FC, not just assume adding one pack of blabity blah"..."I will avoid adding hybrid products so that I can get comfortable with controlling specific variables..." etc. You know, BBB pool-owner affirmations ;)
Click to expand...


Didn't buy dichlor. I bought bleach though. I will buy some solid CYA and start fresh. I want to be 100% at 30 ppm CYA. Just curious, does alkalinity go up/down on a fresh fill usually?
 

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MonsterPoolMan said:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Swim-Time-4-lbs-Stabilizer/20966222

Okay, I think I will go with this! Is this okay? Do I add the full 110 oz at once in a sock?
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I would only add about 3/4 of it. If it's low, it's no problem to add more; removing it is a whole 'nother story.

Place it in a sock or nylon and suspend it in front of a return. Or ties it off to a pool noodle. Something to allow plenty of circulation around it that also keeps it off the floor and out of the filter (in case you need to backwash before it's all dissolved). Give it a week or so before you retest it.
 
jblizzle said:
I would not waste the CYA reagent until you are a week after your last dose of dichlor (since the test will not read anything below 20ppm anyway).

Just trust the pool calculator to be close enough for CYA and add dichlor to keep the FC over 2ppm (under 10 ppm).

Each 16 oz pack should add ~2.4 ppm FC and ~2.2 ppm of CYA.
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This is a great answer.

Sent via Tapatalk...
 
MonsterPoolMan said:
The only question we have with that is we know solid CYA lowers pH, does liquid CYA lower it too? Also, will liquid CYA register right away or do you have to wait a week like solid?
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Pool Calculator says no pH change with the liquid (At the bottom - Effects of Adding Chemicals) . Liquid CYA should read after it's had time to thoroughly mix. I'd give it a day, and some brushing, before I tested it.
 
Richard320 said:
MonsterPoolMan said:
The only question we have with that is we know solid CYA lowers pH, does liquid CYA lower it too? Also, will liquid CYA register right away or do you have to wait a week like solid?
Click to expand...
Pool Calculator says no pH change with the liquid (At the bottom - Effects of Adding Chemicals) . Liquid CYA should read after it's had time to thoroughly mix. I'd give it a day, and some brushing, before I tested it.
Click to expand...

Thanks. So my plan is when fresh water is full is to check pH and alkalinity, get FC to 6, add CYA to 30-40 range, and check pH FC daily and CYA monthly. Plan?

We just decided to start fresh as in the long run, we will save $$$ with BBB. I will return the favor to the site which is what it is all about! I will post photos when all is completed. You guys will turn me into a novice Chem Geek when all is said and done but your knowledge is priceless.
 
MonsterPoolMan said:
Thanks. So my plan is when fresh water is full is to check pH and alkalinity, get FC to 6, add CYA to 30-40 range, and check pH FC daily and CYA monthly. Plan?
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Almost. I'd recheck CYA after a week or so. And if pH shows out of range, you'll also need to check TA so you know how much acid to add. And you should check CH every week or two because California tends to have hard water and it can build up fast in the summer. Water evaporates, CH remains. If CH starts getting super high, you'll need to compensate by lowering TA and/or targeting a lower pH to keep CSI neutral.
 
Okay I am back! Don't run, lol..............Water drained and refilled, shock in progress and I added 2 gallons of liquid condition.

FAS-DPD results right now;

FC-11
CC-0
pH-7.4
TA-80
CH-160
CYA-35

Is Hardness too low?
 
Yes, that is a bit low for a plaster pool. Are you using the poolcalculator? Check out the CSI toward the bottom. Your listed results are a bit far on the negative side, raising the CH will help that. Maybe bring the CH up to 250ppm and then maintain the pH a little higher 7.5-7.6
 
jblizzle said:
Yes, that is a bit low for a plaster pool. Are you using the poolcalculator? Check out the CSI toward the bottom. Your listed results are a bit far on the negative side, raising the CH will help that. Maybe bring the CH up to 250ppm and then maintain the pH a little higher 7.5-7.6
Click to expand...

CSI is -0.35. Ouch. Man, Pool Calculator recommends over 400 oz of Calcium.............wow. Looks like 25 lbs should do it!
 

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