Chlorine won't hold, CYA not showing?

[Drd]

I took a sample to leslie to get another test result and their analysis of my water said I had 40 ppm CYA while my Taylor test (new regent) I can still see the black dot perfectly and 750 Phosphates and they blamed it on high Phosphates. I also started using Bioguard 60 algaecide (which I'm sold on using to control algae because even with the chlorine issue, no algae and clear water) and I do balance before adding it too as instructed (although next day chlorine is zero again). Now I read that Phosphates are already oxidized so it does not use up chlorine it's just a food source for algae is the danger, algae is the reason chlorine used up. This is so overwhelming to do figure out all the time. My ph I have managed to control around 7.6-7.8 with acid every couple of days and TA around 100 but today for the first time was 80 which I never had before and PH 7.8. I don't really want to confuse things but I did add some Borax supreme after I refilled my pool last spring but not a full dose which didn't seem to do much good on controlling PH but the water sure sparkled. Otherwise, I'm using Magic Acid now which I have no problem working with instead of dry acid which was expensive because it takes so much to get the ph to lower and almost doesn't effect TA at all and I know it also adds sulfates a TDS too, what isn't? I'm almost wondering if it's easier to control your chemicals with tablets and just deal with the CYA at the end of the summer! I've also had to use a different brand of liquid chlorine than what I was buying at the pool store as it doubled in price, so I'm using a less potent brand now and just using more, tried shocking with hypo chloride and next morning it's zero ppm but I don't want to increase my calcium hardeness so I'm careful with that too. Pulling my hair out! I live in AZ cooling off now has lowered water temp a lot which helps lower demand and potential for alage growth. Crazy thing is the HASA tech support who is also a Phoenix resident, that he keeps his CYA at 10 ppm which also contrary to information in the general pop.

I read one thread on here to keep pouring chlorine in every 15 mins, test, fill until it holds but they said thei cya test was showing 30. How can I test zero in my Taylor test kit and Leslie test says the same water in their automated test system reads 40 which i would clearly see on a Taylor tube. I'm thinking I need more CYA even though it's not suppose to dissipate (I think no chlorine will lower CYA residuals IMO), but the Leslie test makes me concerned I'm not getting the right reading and I might add to the problem putting more in! Frustrated and Exhausted!

 

[PoolStored]

HEY!

Might be good to revisit pool school --> Pool Care Basics

TDS, Phosphates, algaecides are not the problem.

Your TA at 80 and pH of 7.8 are fine.

The issue is that your CYA is likely low and the sun is consuming your FC. Trust your Taylor test kit. Ask me why I am "PoolStored."

I'd add 30ppm of Chlorine Stabilizer (use pool math to figure out how much to add -->PoolMath) and get your FC up with manual dosing of liquid chlorine (using your Hasa or manually) and keep it at the appropriate level for your (new) CYA level (adjust your HASA until your FC hold at the right level according to this chart -->FC/CYA Levels

 

[Dirk]

As @PoolStored insinuated, you're being pool-stored. You need exactly three chemicals in your pool. No more algaecide. No more Borax. No tabs. And no more pool store testing! You don't need to even think about phosphates or sulfates or TDS. You are driving yourself crazy. You need three chemicals on hand, and only three:

- chlorine (any brand, any strength, as long as it is only chlorine (no additives))
- muriatic acid (no more dry or any other magic potion acid)
- CYA granules (NOT liquid)

That's it.

Trust your Taylor kit. All that is wrong with your pool is that the CYA is low. That's it. As PoolStored suggested, raise it to thirty. Use your kit to confirm. Do not go back and test at the pool store. Do not go back and test at the pool store. (Yep, wrote it twice.) Get your FC up to the recommended level and test and dose often enough so that it never gets near your minimum level. If you do those two things, you'll never get algae.

Test and dose with muriatic often enough to keep your pH in the 7s. Mid-sevens best.

Forget about everything else.

Like most everyone else here, I've been doing exactly that. For the last five years: no algae. Don't know and don't care about phosphates. I test regularly and keep all my levels as TFP recommends. I stabilize both TA and pH with muriatic acid alone.

You have waaaaaay over-complicated your pool's care. Simplify it. Try it for a few months. You'll never look back. I know this sounds too simple. It's not. It works. TFP has torture-tested this MO across many, many years and hundreds of thousands of pools. You read that right. This is not some flash-in-the-pan crazy notion, this is proven science, and more importantly 334,992 people can prove it (that's the current number of TFP members). Go through Pool School again. Use Pool Math to calculate your levels. Refer to the TFP recommended levels.

Oh, almost forgot:
Do not go back and test at the pool store.

 

[gingrbredman]

I don't think I can say it better than @PoolStored or @Dirk !

The original post is that of a person who is following a method of pool care that is neither sustainable, nor practical. All these wildly different methods, that do not work, are followed by corrections because they didn't work, and the corrections do not work either. I agree, take a pause, go back to basics, and follow the crazy simple TFP methods, and all will be well very soon.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

I'll second what Dirk said. I've been using TFP methods for 3 seasons now, and I have kept my levels at the TFP recommended levels. I couldn't even tell you what algae looks like. There has not been a single day that my pool wasn't swim ready, except for maybe water temps (polar bears might be ok with it).

I have also only ever put in the 3 chemicals that Dirk discussed, chlorine, muriatic acid, and stabilizer (CYA). Don't know or care about anything else.

The level of complexity that the pool store can add is mind boggling. Follow the KISS method (Keep It Super Simple).

--Jeff

 

[Brad_C]

I'm thinking I need more CYA even though it's not suppose to dissipate

It does. Nobody knows why (although there are a lot of theories), and some pools lose none while others lose lots. CYA does dissipate over time.

Ours? We start at 70ppm at the start of Summer and by the start of next Summer it's 0. That's not water replacement, overflow or backwash. My calculations are we should start at 70 and be 40 12 months later based on water replacement. It just gradually goes away.

Get a good test, and if it's reading low, top it up.
I'm lucky (or whatever), but my local pool store CYA test agrees with my local testing. Its the only parameter they actually routinely get right.

 

[Dirk]

It does. Nobody knows why (although there are a lot of theories), and some pools lose none while others lose lots. CYA does dissipate over time.

Ours? We start at 70ppm at the start of Summer and by the start of next Summer it's 0. That's not water replacement, overflow or backwash. My calculations are we should start at 70 and be 40 12 months later based on water replacement. It just gradually goes away.

Get a good test, and if it's reading low, top it up.
I'm lucky (or whatever), but my local pool store CYA test agrees with my local testing. Its the only parameter they actually routinely get right.

@Drd, Brad has covered the issue I left out. Yes, CYA does dissipate. You test for it periodically (how often depends on your pool, start with once a month, go to less often if you can get away with it). Dose it back up as required.

Brad is using a CYA level of 70ppm because he has an SWG. You don't, so your CYA level would be closer to 30-40ppm. Use this chart:
FC/CYA Levels

 

[nieuport17]

Leslie test (AccueBlue machine) is not accurate. In fact, if you go to different Leslie stores with the same sample you will get different results from that little machine.
Magic acid is a $$ making product for them. They will tell you that it's the same as muriatic acid. It is not.

 

[Drd]

HEY!

Might be good to revisit pool school --> Pool Care Basics

TDS, Phosphates, algaecides are not the problem.

Your TA at 80 and pH of 7.8 are fine.

The issue is that your CYA is likely low and the sun is consuming your FC. Trust your Taylor test kit. Ask me why I am "PoolStored."

I'd add 30ppm of Chlorine Stabilizer (use pool math to figure out how much to add -->PoolMath) and get your FC up with manual dosing of liquid chlorine (using your Hasa or manually) and keep it at the appropriate level for your (new) CYA level (adjust your HASA until your FC hold at the right level according to this chart -->FC/CYA Levels

You are correct, the pool store test said I had 40 ppm CYA, Taylor test showed zero and still problems with no FC so, I added CYA and it's testing at the top of the tube so I'm guessing just under 30 ppm and chlorine is testing positive too. I thought my test kit might be old and the store test threw me a curve. I'm also trying to fix my feeder which has been challenging too, but will add manually if necessary! Thank you

 

[Drd]

Leslie test (AccueBlue machine) is not accurate. In fact, if you go to different Leslie stores with the same sample you will get different results from that little machine.
Magic acid is a $$ making product for them. They will tell you that it's the same as muriatic acid. It is not.

I can't use the regular Muriatic acid due to health issues, but I can use the magic acid and it works much better than dry acid does and no sulfates. Albeit, Magic Acid is not as strong and more expensive but in the end, I'm able to adjust the TA and able to get better and quicker results for lower ph too. I don't even need a mask no smell at all and doesn't burn you so much safer to work with. I have found a place to buy it that has a much better price too.

 

[PoolStored]

You are correct, the pool store test said I had 40 ppm CYA, Taylor test showed zero and still problems with no FC so, I added CYA and it's testing at the top of the tube so I'm guessing just under 30 ppm and chlorine is testing positive too. I thought my test kit might be old and the store test threw me a curve. I'm also trying to fix my feeder which has been challenging too, but will add manually if necessary! Thank you

Niiiiiice!!! Great Job! Trust your test kit!

 

[Griswald]

One more thing, in case you didn't catch it...

Do not go back to the pool store.