Chlorine issues? Salt levels? - Image intensive

[Phoenix]

Here's my best guess, remember I'm new!
---I'm betting the SWG has been broken for a while. The previous owner told me that he used a bag of "weekly shock" from the shasta store on the pool weekly (probably in an attempt to keep chlorine in the pool). A bit of digging on my part shows that this shasta weekly shock treatment contains stabilizers. 2+2=4

I bought a broken SWG I think - I'm going to take it to Leslies where they can test the unit (or so they say).

Here's where I stand as of this second:
I dumped 50% of the water last night, then filled it back up.
On the way back up, I threw in some chlorine
The pool is full as of just a few minutes ago.
I'm going to let the thing clean all night (as it won't/can't clean while it's too low of water).
In the AM, I'm going to run my own test, then some sample water (for a second opinion) and the SWG and head off to Leslie's. I'll pick up some chlorine if the test comes back bad.

I will report back tomorrow with my findings to include the calcium hardness number from my spiffy new kit. The water is still perfectly clear with a bit of red stuff still growing in the shade. Very light, looks more like lines of rust that sweeps off easily enough.

 

[Guest]

Here's my best guess, remember I'm new!
---I'm betting the SWG has been broken for a while. The previous owner told me that he used a bag of "weekly shock" from the shasta store on the pool weekly (probably in an attempt to keep chlorine in the pool). A bit of digging on my part shows that this shasta weekly shock treatment contains stabilizers. 2+2=4

I bought a broken SWG I think

We have a winner! :cop: So do I, been hinting at that. The ONLY explanation I could come up with as to why a salt pool would have such high CYA is that the generator was not working and some idiot (sorry I mean the previous owner) was chlorinating with either trichlor or dichlor and NOT testing the water. I would call either the 800 support number on the unit or try calling tech support at Goldine Controls and ask if they can help you with your rebranded unit. You might only need a new cell, they do wear out. Tech support can often tell if the cell is bad over the phone by the amperage and voltage that is shown on the digigital display if your unit has that feature. It looks like an older model so it may not. In the mean time just maintain the pool with bleach or liquid chlorine until you get the SWG fixed. You DO need to get your CYA levels down first.
The previous owner obviously did not take proper care of his water balance and that could be responisble for early cell demise. You might want to take a few minutes to read the sticky on water balance tips for SWGs. It has a few thngs in it that help explain why improper water balance can shorten cell life.

 

[Phoenix]

I might have it right, but I didn't want to win...

Ok, I have further information. My SWG might not be as bad as I thought. I got with Goldine, they pushed me immediately off to a local company. I called that fella and he was nice enough to talk me through a few things. First off, this cell isn't clean enough even after a few cleanings over the weekend. Here, let me show you:

I thought that this was a glue that was used to hold the plates together. I honestly didn't realize that there was this much Crud in there. I don't think the original owner ever cleaned this thing.

The repair man told me to soak it for a while then take a screwdriver and put tape over the end of it to protect the cells and lightly work out the rest of the scale. I'm thinking maybe a toothpick, but then again that might get eaten by the acid. I have it soaking again - what are your thoughts?

I should have taken a photo of this thing earlier. I tried to google photos of how it would look dirty and clean, but never found any. Maybe someone can take this photo and make up a sticky on "a dummy's guide to a dirty SWG"

Oh and my test results:
CYA - 160
CH - Over 300 (I could never get the liquid to turn blue...)
TA - 96
pH - 8.0
FC - 0
TC - 0

The chlorine boggles me as I did dump some in last night. I just can't get a chlorine reading off this pool. Maybe the CYA is screwing with it somehow?

 

[Poolsean]

That's calcium scale that is blocking flow through the cell and possibly calcium between the cell blades too. First, you do not want to insert anything metallic to get the scale out. If you scratch the blades, you are damaging the cell.

I would recommend that you acid wash the cell again. The acid solution will dissolve the calcium scale and make it easier for you to clear out. I can't imagine how long it's going to take you to pick it out with a toothpick.

Make sure you rinse out the cell before putting it back in.

 

[Phoenix]

Still soaking. This is going to take a while. You sure it's ok to keep soaking it for so long? The solution is about 50% acid and 50% water - it was made a couple days ago when I last soaked it. I don't think I need to make up a new batch as it would only get stronger over time, not weaker.

 

[Guest]

Still soaking. This is going to take a while. You sure it's ok to keep soaking it for so long? The solution is about 50% acid and 50% water - it was made a couple days ago when I last soaked it. I don't think I need to make up a new batch as it would only get stronger over time, not weaker.

Wrong, as the aicid neutralized the alkaline calcium carbonate it gets neutralized also so it gets weaker! If there is not bubbling it's not doing anything. I suspect that the amount of calcium in your cell has alraady neutralzied much of the acid. 50/ ir too strong if you are using 31% percent muriatic but ok if it's 15%. Use a 4 to 1 dilution for the stronger acid.

As far as the calcium test, if you are using a Taylor kit or one based on Taylor reagents you can use a 10 ml sample instead of 25 ml, 10 drops of the first reagent, 3 drops of the indicator, and then when you titrate each drop is 20 ppm calcium hardness instead of 10 ppm. You lose some resolution but at very high calcium levels this is not that important

In some parts of the country CH levels of 800-1000 ppm are not uncommon in the fill water! Not the best thing but it can be managed!

 

[Phoenix]

Ok, thanks bear. It's a 29% acid. I've remixed the solution to 4/1 to make a weaker batch. I've got the thing soaking again. It appears to have lost about 30% of the calcium in the soak this morning. It has a way to go!

 

[JasonLion]

When it stops bubbling/foaming up it is time to replace the acid with a fresh batch.

 

[Phoenix]

quick question - what is the proper disposal method of the used acid wash?

 

[Strannik]

quick question - what is the proper disposal method of the used acid wash?

Back in a pool. Helps to lower the pH Although with that concentration of calcium i would just put it in a toilet and flush it.
But normally it's ok to pour it in a pool.

With regards to scraping - use disposable knifes. Since they are plastic, they won't damage the surface.

 

[Phoenix]

Well I tell ya, that stuff ain't going to come off without a fight. It's been an hour soaking in 2 different baths and it's still there like cement. I'm betting this has been like this a year or more and it just accumulates even after it first threw an error.

I'm going to keep at the soaking and maybe go to the store and see if I can find some long slender plastic picks that I can use to just open holes in the calcium (not scrape) so that the acid bath gets a bit deeper into the build up.

What I need is a pump that forces acid through it like water - wouldn't that be neat? Unrealistic, I know - but just think how fast these things would clean if the acid bath was put through the unit at high pressure! Vroom!

Ok, off to the store. Thank you all for your help on this. I'm hoping that everything is salvageable!

 

[Strannik]

By the way, have you tried pressure hose?

 

[Poolsean]

Strannik,

You beat me to it. But not a pressure washer. Just a high pressure nozzle on a garden hose.
Spray at both ends to help get it out.

 

[Phoenix]

Well, the hoses that are here at the house were left by the last fella and are not in good shape. I'll add a hose to my list. I already have a nozzle that is perfect for the filters that he left me.

 

[ktdave]

That it a great picture of calcium scaling in a chlorine generator (albeit an EXTREME case).

Good luck with that!

 

[Phoenix]

It's been soaking all day, and it's still breaking down the calcium. I just got another couple gallons of acid to get me through the night cleaning this thing! We're getting there!

I'm curious how long this thing has been stuffed like this...

 

[Guest]

Keep at it. As far as the used acid goes you might want to dump some baking soda in it to neutralize it and then flush it. With that much calcium I would not put it in your pool. That's where it came from originally!

 

[cliff_s]

A couple of suggestions:

Be sure your SWG is a self cleaning model. Call the manfacturer
if necessary. Here in the Valley(Phoenix) there is just too much calcium
in the water to have a non-selfcleaning model work satisfactory.

By the looks of the cell it is not a self cleaning model. The problem in
cleaning one that is so plugged is that you cannot get the calcium out
from between the plates without damaging the plates. My guess would be
that the cell is history and as to be replaced. If you can't get a replacment
the whole unit will have to be replaced.

I would guess that the cell got clogged and the previous owner didn't want to pay
someone to come out and clean it, so they switched to Tri-cor tabs and turned the unit off.

Cliff s