Chlorine and Stabilizer

[trclac]

tr,

Not to worry. You can manage with that 60 CYA for the rest of the summer.....it's high but it's not unacceptable. You'll do fine.


1. If your water is clear, I would not shock right away....you may not need to. It will depend on your CC test results to determine the need to shock. Can you do the CC's test?

2. If you do need to, you can use Jason's calculator (in my sig info) to figure how much you will need.....you will need you need almost 4 gallons of 12% chlorine

3. Assuming you do shock, it is not a one-time event. Rather, it is a process that can take a few days. Read How to Shock up in Pool School

Post back with more questions. You have progressed tremendously and are getting nearer to taking charge of your pool.

Thanks. I spoke to the local chem place, and they recommended 5 gallons of liquid shock, which is what I went ahead and applied. I do have the tester for CC and FC, but the level on my tester only goes up to 5 ppm.

I read the shock process document in Pool School. It looks like a drop of 1 ppm or more overnight requires another shock treatment, but my kit is likely useless for this (given that I'm sure my FC is far above 5 now and I have no way of determining a 1 ppm drop overnight).

One thing is for sure -- no more trichlor or dichlor until the stabilizer readings go down throughout the summer. I'm on 100% liquid chlorine now!

 

[anonapersona]

Thanks. I spoke to the local chem place, and they recommended 5 gallons of liquid shock, which is what I went ahead and applied.

Why did they tell you to shock? You have so much fresh water in the pool, you may have only needed to get the FC level up to what it needs to be for your current CYA level.

I do have the tester for CC and FC, but the level on my tester only goes up to 5 ppm.

You really need to get a good test kit, or better yet, a great test kit. I strongly recommend the TF100 that is available through links here. It has all the tests you need, and more reagents than similar kits. So many of the people on this forum have it and are quite familiar with it so that you can have all your questions answered right away. It comes with a nice box that keeps everything in order and has a place to record tests, maybe 28 or so, so you can keep up with how things have varied over the last weeks or month. It is made to be erased so I keep a rolling log, with the past maybe 3 weeks of tests visible.

I read the shock process document in Pool School. It looks like a drop of 1 ppm or more overnight requires another shock treatment, but my kit is likely useless for this (given that I'm sure my FC is far above 5 now and I have no way of determining a 1 ppm drop overnight).

IMO, you shouldn't bother to shock until you have the kit. If indeed you actually need to shock at all.

 

[trclac]

Thanks. I took a sample up to the chem place an hour after adding 5 gallons of liquid chlorine. They confirmed the CYA reading of 65 (my test showed around 60), but they only showed FC of 6 ppm. What the heck? Shouldn't 5 gallons of liquid chlorine have raised the FC into the 20s? I'm missing something here.
Thanks for the test kit suggestion. With as much as I've spent draining and refilling this week, what's another expense?
By the way, the pool place also said that the CYA can get into the pebbletec and it's almost impossible to get it off the pebbletec.

 

[reebok]

that's interesting about the pebbletec, but I would have to see chemgeek say it before I would believe it.
their kit may only go to a certain chlorine level. I bet it goes to 5 and it was darker (or whatever) than 5 so they said 6. possible?

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Thanks. I took a sample up to the chem place an hour after adding 5 gallons of liquid chlorine. They confirmed the CYA reading of 65 (my test showed around 60), but they only showed FC of 6 ppm. What the heck? Shouldn't 5 gallons of liquid chlorine have raised the FC into the 20s? I'm missing something here.
Thanks for the test kit suggestion. With as much as I've spent draining and refilling this week, what's another expense?
By the way, the pool place also said that the CYA can get into the pebbletec and it's almost impossible to get it off the pebbletec.

That's a crock. It may go up again, but I don't believe for a second "it's impossible" to remove it...

What happened was you had organics in your water, despite the drain/refill, that consumed the chlorine as you added it. I would raise the chlorine back up to 20 tonight, and then I would use the kit you have and to a 3:1 dilution with distilled (or any chlorine-free water) to see your levels. If you don't reach 20 after adding chlorine, add more until you do. Then test again in the morning, using the dilution, to see where you are at. Yes, you'll lose some accuracy, but you will also make some progress to a trouble-free pool.

 

[TGMcCallie]

I am told by my pool store that the correct way to reduce the cy acid this late in the season is to stop using my auto chlorinator and put 2 of my 3 inch tablets into the skimmer basket. They say then when I open up the pool in the Spring to use my vacuum cleaner to vacuum from the bottom of the pool. Vacuum to waste. He said that the acide was heaver than water, etc and would have settled to the bottom of the pool. He said it took about 3 months for the acid to settle to the bottom. He said this way I would get more of the true acid from the pool. He said to do this and eliminate about 2 foot of water. Then fill the pool up with regular water and check the acide level.

Does that make sense.?

Advise

Tom

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Nope.
Crock again.

First off, NEVER put pucks in the skimmer. When the pump is off, the water in the skimmer becomes highly acidic, causing skimmer parts to become brittle and break, wreaks havoc on pump seals/parts and is akin to pouring muratic acid thru the skimmer!

Your CYA level is manageable right now.

The first summer I found TFP I did 2 partial drains/refills and got my CYA to 70. I ran my pool there the rest of the summer. May 2008 another partial drain/refill and got my CYA to 50. Guess what I had to add this year? CYA.

Get yourself a TF100 and avoid that pool store like a bad rash....

 

[anonapersona]

Thanks. I took a sample up to the chem place an hour after adding 5 gallons of liquid chlorine. They confirmed the CYA reading of 65 (my test showed around 60), but they only showed FC of 6 ppm. What the heck? Shouldn't 5 gallons of liquid chlorine have raised the FC into the 20s? I'm missing something here.
Thanks for the test kit suggestion. With as much as I've spent draining and refilling this week, what's another expense?
By the way, the pool place also said that the CYA can get into the pebbletec and it's almost impossible to get it off the pebbletec.

Well, if you lost chlorine that fast then you did need to shock. Chlorine gets used up in one or two ways, mainly. It is burned off by the sun, or it is comsumed as it kills algae. Your CYA protects the chlorine from the sun, and at 60-ish it is well protected. So, organics it is.

Or, of course, the pool store was stumped by such a high chlorine level and just assumed that it was off their chart that might top out at 5ppm, so they said 6 ppm. Your own test with dilutions may be more reliable than theirs.

I would stop worrying about the CYA, 60 is not bad. Eventually it will get dilluted with rain and splashout. As for whether it adheres to the pool, I would think that once the level in the water was less, then if any excess is on surfaces of the pool it ought to slowly disipate and eventually it won't leach out any more to the water.

 

[trclac]

Thanks. I took a sample up to the chem place an hour after adding 5 gallons of liquid chlorine. They confirmed the CYA reading of 65 (my test showed around 60), but they only showed FC of 6 ppm. What the heck? Shouldn't 5 gallons of liquid chlorine have raised the FC into the 20s? I'm missing something here.
Thanks for the test kit suggestion. With as much as I've spent draining and refilling this week, what's another expense?
By the way, the pool place also said that the CYA can get into the pebbletec and it's almost impossible to get it off the pebbletec.

Well, if you lost chlorine that fast then you did need to shock. Chlorine gets used up in one or two ways, mainly. It is burned off by the sun, or it is comsumed as it kills algae. Your CYA protects the chlorine from the sun, and at 60-ish it is well protected. So, organics it is.

Or, of course, the pool store was stumped by such a high chlorine level and just assumed that it was off their chart that might top out at 5ppm, so they said 6 ppm. Your own test with dilutions may be more reliable than theirs.

I would stop worrying about the CYA, 60 is not bad. Eventually it will get dilluted with rain and splashout. As for whether it adheres to the pool, I would think that once the level in the water was less, then if any excess is on surfaces of the pool it ought to slowly disipate and eventually it won't leach out any more to the water.

Thanks. Could you describe the dilution test in more detail? I'm not sure I'm following how it works.

Thanks again. This has been very helpful.

 

[JasonLion]

To test chlorine with dilution, take one part of pool water and mix it with three parts of chlorine free water (many people use distilled water). Then do the chlorine test using that mixture, instead of straight pool water, and multiply the result by four. That lets you measure higher chlorine levels, though you lose a fair bit of precision.

 

[trclac]

To test chlorine with dilution, take one part of pool water and mix it with three parts of chlorine free water (many people use distilled water). Then do the chlorine test using that mixture, instead of straight pool water, and multiply the result by four. That lets you measure higher chlorine levels, though you lose a fair bit of precision.

I'm really glad I found this forum. You guys are incredibly helpful.

I performed the dilution test and ended up with FC of about 12 ppm at noon in Houston today, twice as high as the 6 ppm the pool store showed last night (but, as others noted, the pool store probably maxes out at 6). Of course, given that I drained/refilled, I am also adding muriatic acid to get the PH back in line. I've added one gallon so far, and that didn't do the trick, so I need to go buy some more today.

Now my only problem is that my two young kids are pestering me to swim ... but until the FC drops to around 3 ppm, I guess I'll just put up with their whining!

 

[reebok]

if your cya is 60 and you let your fc drop the 3, you will get algae. chlorine levels of 1-3ppm are pool industry myths based on indoor pools with no cya. you need to maintain an fc reading of 7ppm at all times, and never let it drop below 5ppm.. I would let the kids swim in that pool up to an fc reading of 24. here is the chart again:
pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock

 

[trclac]

Ah, ok, thanks.

One last question, since you all have been so helpful. The pool store says I need to add No Mor Problems and Metal Free every weekend, per the label instructions. These aren't cheap chemicals. What are the thoughts on these chemicals? I've been using them for a year, but if I can get away without this additional expense, I'd like to know.

 

[anonapersona]

Ah, ok, thanks.

One last question, since you all have been so helpful. The pool store says I need to add No Mor Problems and Metal Free every weekend, per the label instructions. These aren't cheap chemicals. What are the thoughts on these chemicals? I've been using them for a year, but if I can get away without this additional expense, I'd like to know.

First, I need to know, as I've never been "pool stored", how much are they wanting you to spend on these chemicals? I have no idea what they do, so you need to wait on Jason or one of the moderators who will know. Meanwhile, can you read the labels for me? I'm just curious.

No, nevermind, I searched online to see the ads for No Mor Problems. An algicide that promises to "allow you to run with nearly no residual chlorine, eliminates need to brush, lets you run pump 50% less time, removes floaty stuff from water, keeps your filter clean, you'll never need to shock your pool, do not shock you pool while using, use OTO test to measure chlorine." I am certain that Jason or Chem Geek will have something for you on that. I'll also bet they say "Absolutely Do Not Use This Product" but let's wait for them. I suspect it is an ammonia based product but that is a wild guess on my part, novice that I am.

Did the store test your water and find metals in it? If you have your own well water, that is sometimes an issue, but for "city" water, not likely, unless of course, some of the stuff they have been selling to you CONTAINS metals. That's a neat trick, eh, sell you one thing and then the other to reverse the first one?

Finally, since you have been using them for a year, knowing that might be important as to what you are doing now, since the No Mor Problems does state that it will cause your chlorine to read incorrectly low and if you over-chlorinate it can cause a reaction with the reagents. Again, you need an expert to weigh in on that.

PS, Just clarify this for me... you were using these products weekly before, then you dumped 2/3 of your water and refilled, then dumped 1/2 your water and refilled. But, have you added any of these products since the first dumping?

 

[CurtisT]

My CYA is still high ... the reading I am getting now (after filling the pool) is a CYA of about 60, which is better than 95 but not what I hoped for.

I'm in Houston as well (NW Side). I'm only a couple of months in to the BBB method and fresh off a partial re-fill as well and I'm keeping my CYA at about 70 for now (with all of the 100+ degree weather we've had this summer). I've stopped using the pucks, so I expect splash out to drop by CYA a little over time. I've gotten into a routine now, where I just spend a couple of minutes testing the chlorine and adding 1-3 quarts of bleach each night... it's really very little trouble and the pool has looked great since I got things under control

 

[reebok]

you don't need algaecides, no mor problems, pool perfect, phos free or any other the zillion other silly products out there if you follow the chlorine/cya chart religiously. metals in your water is another issue. if you do have metals then you need to use a sequestrant, though metal free is not recommended. see more about it here:
what-is-the-best-stain-preventative-for-fiberglass-pool-t12097.html

there is some more about no mor problems here:
polyquat-60-vs-no-more-problems-sodium-bromide-t9277.html