Central Texas DIY 20x44 Vinyl Liner Build Done

[KfenTx]

Months ago when I started looking for a DIY kit, I decided on Pool Warehouse (for multiple reasons which I forget now). We're finally ready to pull the trigger so I contact them for a quote and to arrange payment. The sales rep emails me mid day and says he called and left a voicemail (I had no missed calls or voicemails) and wants to know when a good time is. I was at work and had meetings so I told him when and he confirmed. The time comes and goes so two hours later I email back and say to let me know if his call isn't going through. In the meantime I decide to refresh my memory on vendor options and come across Royal Swimming Pools. Turns out their pricing for a very very comparable package was about $3,000 cheaper. Pool Warehouse happens to call me shortly after this so I let him know what I've found and emailed him the RSP quote to see what they can do to compete. I asked him what makes them better than RSP and he said the products are pretty equivalent but they (PW) have much better communication.

I then call Royal Swimming Pools and instead of an automated phone system and getting put on hold for 10+ minutes, a real person actually answers the phone on the third ring and is SUPER helpful. He tells me about other (cheaper!) options I didn't know existed and said the filter I was looking at was probably bigger than I needed.

So now I'm in a dilemma. We're ready to buy and I had been pretty set on Pool Warehouse but they're saying communication is their selling point when everything I've experienced so far indicates Royal Swimming Pools has the better communication.

Can anybody chime in with experiences for either place?? Thanks for your help!

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

Based on what you posted I would say go with your gut and RSP.

 

[Newdude]

Hey K !!! Your gut is prolly telling you right.

Be advised on the filter tho. They rarely are too big. They are rated/reccomended for pool volume and flow. They take zero account for your yard / trees / debris which will also need filtering. The more the filter needs to filter, the more often it needs to be deep cleaned. The salesmen never cares if that is every 3 weeks or once a season.

Obviously (for example) a 8k gallon pool doesn't need a 580 Sq ft filter with less surface area to trap debris. But still.

Post up more details before you pull the trigger and we'll give it some real world advice.

 

[klanel]

I have had a (first and last) bad experience with them which is ongoing but due to this website policy I will not share unless a MOD says it is OK since it could not be verified.

But something that can be verified is the BBB complaints against them. I would suggest looking at the BBB reports on PW. I have no idea of how many sales they have but there are complaints after complaints and quite often it seems that Pool Warehouse puts the blame for poor service on their suppliers and third parties. You may especially be interested in the one where someone ordered a pool and took time off from work and one piece of the pool showed up. Told by PW that the rest would show up together but after it didn't said they had no control over the third parties.

 

[KfenTx]

Thank you all so much! I agree about following my gut. And yes, they even said the bigger filter will reduce maintenance a bit and isn't a bad thing. My husband and I both work full time and I know a pool will take time so we're trying to reduce that as much as we possibly can. As far as what we're ordering......

20x44 vinyl liner in ground with autocover kit. Months ago I decided steel walls were the way to go but now i'm wondering if that's true given we're doing a salt system. We do live in central texas where the ground is pretty much hard clay. Full width six foot tanning ledge with steps (thinking four step jets?) Initially I was going to get the ominlogic system but Royal said the omniPL will do everything I want and already has wifi built in. Thoughts on this??? 40k salt cell with that. We'll want to run the lights (4x 12V colorlogic), heater and pump off it. No water features, back yard lights or anything. Hayward variable speed 2.7hp pump and the hayward heat/cool 120k BTU electric heat pump. The filter I had picked was the C7030 cartridge filter. Again, I know the pool will never be "set it and forget it" but we're trying to do as much as we can to minimize maintenance.

That was a bit all over the place. Did I miss anything? Suggestions are greatly appreciated. Maybe i'll try to make a build thread but life is pretty busy so I promise nothing. haha

 

[KfenTx]

I have had a (first and last) bad experience with them which is ongoing but due to this website policy I will not share unless a MOD says it is OK since it could not be verified.

But something that can be verified is the BBB complaints against them. I would suggest looking at the BBB reports on PW. I have no idea of how many sales they have but there are complaints after complaints and quite often it seems that Pool Warehouse puts the blame for poor service on their suppliers and third parties. You may especially be interested in the one where someone ordered a pool and took time off from work and one piece of the pool showed up. Told by PW that the rest would show up together but after it didn't said they had no control over the third parties.

Ugh. Yeah, I was looking at the BBB reviews for both and Royal's are actually horrific. I think they have a one star rating. PW has a lot of complaints too but their rating isn't as bad. Both companies complaints seem similar and are in regards to the shipping/delivery of materials.

Royal Swimming Pools was very clear that I HAVE to take inventory of deliveries before the truck leaves otherwise there's not much they can do. At least they warned me?

I know it won't help others but maybe you could PM me details?

 

[klanel]

PM sent

 

[Newdude]

20x44 vinyl liner in ground with autocover kit

OK. So a honking pool needs a honking filter to match. But then the autocover will stop alot of debris from entering the pool. *if* you successfully blow it off each time. It's easier said than done when it's damp/wet from the morning dew / previous rains. So maybe look at 2/3s as big as you can go for each respective filter. You still can't go to large though.

Months ago I decided steel walls were the way to go but now i'm wondering if that's true given we're doing a salt

The only way the walls will ever touch the pool water is with leaks. It's true they can be small and unnoticeable for years, like a slow leak from the skimmers, but not common enough to change the equation. 'Chlorine pool water' will do just as much damage either way. Moisture is the enemy, not the 10% of seawater salinity.

I was going to get the ominlogic system but Royal said the omniPL will do everything I want and already has wifi built in.

Hang tight for an automation guru.

40k salt cell with that.

You want a 2X the volume SWG, or more. They are rated for average consumption with 24/7 running. In the peak season it may not keep up at 100% output on hot years. A 2X unit produces the same FC daily with half the runtime. With a 10k hour expected lifespan, half the hours 'on' means it lasts twice as long. The upsizing costs WAY work in your favor. It's usually 20% more expensive to get 50% or 100% more lifespan. A 20k-40k would double. A 40k-60k would get 50% (like yours here)

I know the pool will never be "set it and forget it" but we're trying to do as much as we can to minimize maintenance.

You are well on your way to easy peazy pool care with proper planning before. We'll walk you through the nitty gritty when the time comes and it will more or less take care of itself. (With you keeping tabs on it to verify it's doing its thing properly)

 

[KfenTx]

OK. So a honking pool needs a honking filter to match. But then the autocover will stop alot of debris from entering the pool. *if* you successfully blow it off each time. It's easier said than done when it's damp/wet from the morning dew / previous rains. So maybe look at 2/3s as big as you can go for each respective filter. You still can't go to large though.

The only way the walls will ever touch the pool water is with leaks. It's true they can be small and unnoticeable for years, like a slow leak from the skimmers, but not common enough to change the equation. 'Chlorine pool water' will do just as much damage either way. Moisture is the enemy, not the 10% of seawater salinity.

Hang tight for an automation guru.


You want a 2X the volume SWG, or more. They are rated for average consumption with 24/7 running. In the peak season it may not keep up at 100% output on hot years. A 2X unit produces the same FC daily with half the runtime. With a 10k hour expected lifespan, half the hours 'on' means it lasts twice as long. The upsizing costs WAY work in your favor. It's usually 20% more expensive to get 50% or 100% more lifespan. A 20k-40k would double. A 40k-60k would get 50% (like yours here)

You are well on your way to easy peazy pool care with proper planning before. We'll walk you through the nitty gritty when the time comes and it will more or less take care of itself. (With you keeping tabs on it to verify it's doing its thing properly)

Holy, thank you so much for all of this!! Really helpful and appreciated! I will definitely stick with the big filter. We don't have trees or anything that flowers near the pool location but anything to keep it cleaner for less work. hahah I don't recall seeing a bigger salt cell as an option but I will certainly ask. Silly question, can I run two instead of getting one bigger one?

 

[Newdude]

Silly question, can I run two instead of getting one bigger one

You can and need to set them with one as the primary, in a master/slave relationship.

But. The only time it makes sense is in a 60k+ pool. The initial buy in costs the bulk of the money. Today's price per some quick googling has the pentair IC40 (to 40k gallons) and controller in the mid $1200s. The complete IC60 system is in the $1400s. So give or take 20% more for 50% more life.

Pentair and Circupool have 60k units. Depth of course can greatly change your pool volume, but a 20×44 is gonna be in the 30k range if it isn't a sport pool.

 

[KfenTx]

You can and need to set them with one as the primary, in a master/slave relationship.

But. The only time it makes sense is in a 60k+ pool. The initial buy in costs the bulk of the money. Today's price per some quick googling has the pentair IC40 (to 40k gallons) and controller in the mid $1200s. The complete IC60 system is in the $1400s. So give or take 20% more for 50% more life.

Pentair and Circupool have 60k units. Depth of course can greatly change your pool volume, but a 20×44 is gonna be in the 30k range if it isn't a sport pool.

Interesting, thanks. We're planning 8ft deep + diving board. I calculate roughly 37,900 gallons or something around there. I'm certainly all for a slightly higher up front cost if it pays off in the long run (in either time or money). Is it fine to run that cell on the omnilogic/PL? I was sticking to Hayward assuming it would all place nicer together but realize that might not be strictly necesary.

 

[KfenTx]

Also....y'all should see our neighbors pool. It must be something like 30x50. 12feet deep and he has a 3 meter springboard!! Insane.

 

[ajw22]

With Hayward automation get a Hayward SWG cell. Max Hayward cell size is 40k. Get the extended life cell.

With an autocover you will not have much FC loss.

 

[KfenTx]

After sleeping on it and talking to them again, I do think we'll go with Royal Swimming Pools. Based on some discussion, polymer walls might be the better option for us. We're in central texas were the ground doesn't usually freeze and is hard clay. And although its manmade (so water table isn't really an issue), we do live on a lake. All that with having SWG, I think it's probably a better option. So the most updated list of equipment I got quoted is below. Anything I'm missing or should reconsider?

Name 20' x 44' Rectangle Auto Cover Pool Kit with 42" Polymer Walls Corner Radius: 6-inch motor_location: right_motor cover_housing: prefab_housing box_lid: flush_alum_lid cover_color: gray brand_control_type: apc_touchpad coping_type: cantilever_with_forms pool_depth: Standard_8ft entry_step_locations: full 42" High x 20' Wide x 6" Radius Full Width Steel Step with 6' Sunledge 2 Returns with Eyeballs - SP1408 (Gray) SR Smith VLLS-103E Ladder with KA0060 Hinges PermaCast 4-Inch Deck Anchor Bronze PS-4019-B Hayward Tristar VS 950 Pool Pump 2.7THP 2" x 2.5" Unions Hayward SwimClear Multi-Element Cartridge Filter model: C7030 Wide Mouth Dual Skimmer System for Polymer Wall Auto Cover Pools brand: Royal color: gray drains: 2_main_drains OMNI PL 4 Relay Pool/Spa Control w/ WIFI & 940 Salt cell (40k) CMP Compact Pool Defender Anode and Water Bond Deluxe XL 1-1/2" & 2" Plumbing Kit Pool Style Classic Series 5-Piece Maintenance Kit for Vinyl Liner Pools PS540 Dolphin M600 Robotic Pool Cleaner w/Wifi & Caddy ColorLogic 320 1.5" 12V LED Light, 100’ qty: 4 model: LACUS11100 transformer: PX300 fitting: SP1408+G Hayward HeatPro HP31204T Heat Pump, Heat/Cool 120,000 BTU (Square Platform) 8' SrSmith Diving Board with Base color: gray GLI Gunite Light Blue 28 Mil Liner GLI Liner Charges vinyl-over-steps-over-8_hidden_: step_texture: yes

 

[Newdude]

Based on some discussion, polymer walls might be the better option for us.

I'm all over the map on this one. 9 years ago I wanted a forever pool. I went vinyl with concrete walls and although the liner would need replacing at times, it was really no different than resurfacing a plaster pool. The shell would be found by archeologists one day.

Times and feelings about our house changed and we moved. Some rando dude has my forever pool now. Building again, along with being old enough now that a 30 year steel wall pool would be more or less a lifetime pool...... I don't have that same forever requirement.

My PB still only does cement walls, so thankfully I didn't have to choose as I would have been torn between saving on the investment and protecting the investment. Given the costs being so similar these days with steel and polymer, I would go polymer just in case of unnoticeable leaks. IMHO you made the right call.

Hang tight for thoughts on the equipment.

 

[KfenTx]

I'm all over the map on this one. 9 years ago I wanted a forever pool. I went vinyl with concrete walls and although the liner would need replacing at times, it was really no different than resurfacing a plaster pool. The shell would be found by archeologists one day.

Times and feelings about our house changed and we moved. Some rando dude has my forever pool now. Building again, along with being old enough now that a 30 year steel wall pool would be more or less a lifetime pool...... I don't have that same forever requirement.

My PB still only does cement walls, so thankfully I didn't have to choose as I would have been torn between saving on the investment and protecting the investment. Given the costs being so similar these days with steel and polymer, I would go polymer just in case of unnoticeable leaks. IMHO you made the right call.

Hang tight for thoughts on the equipment.

We're bucking the system a bit in our neighborhood. I'm thinking there might be one fiberglass but 99% of the pools here are gunite. When thinking of the additional construction cost, reading about how they cost more to maintain since they're porous, and the idea of re-plastering - I just couldn't do it. I'm ok spending a bit more up front if it pays off in the long run but the most critical thing for me is minimizing maintenance as much as possible (and fiberglass pools just don't come big enough lol). #texas

 

[KfenTx]

Changing the thread title so I can continue updates here as the build progresses. Royal Swimming Pools is giving a shorter lead time (3-5 weeks) than Pool Warehouse was and we really cannot receive it before March so the plan is to check with them again next week and make sure lead times haven't ballooned out to months then either order or wait one more week. They'll hold our quote for two weeks.

The current equipment we've spec'd out is listed a few comments above. I'm also considering adding some deck drains to our plans.

And for something a little fun, a model my husband drew:

pool_drawing_2.png

• KfenTx
• Jan 27, 2022

pool_drawing_1.png

• KfenTx
• Jan 27, 2022

 

[KfenTx]

While we wait to pull the trigger on our order, I keep trying to think of little things that could help us with maintenance. One "complaint" my neighbor has is that every time it rains excessively, water needs removed from the pool. I mention this to my husband and based on experience with fish tanks, he thinks putting a sort of "overflow" in should be feasible.

His idea is to tap into the top half of one of the skimmers and just run a line out into the grass (we will have a retaining wall on the one side of the pool so gravity is our friend). Obviously the plumbing would connect above the ideal water level so it only drains when it's too high. Does anybody see a problem with this?

I know chemicals would still need checked but at least we could get the excess water out right away with no intervention on our part?

 

[ajw22]

Some skimmers have a knockout on the back for an overflow drain.

The proper level of the skimmer and overflow drain becomes more critical so that normal water level with splashing does not drain water out.

 

[KfenTx]

Some skimmers have a knockout on the back for an overflow drain.

The proper level of the skimmer and overflow drain becomes more critical so that normal water level with splashing does not drain water out.

Ah definitely did not know that. Awesome. Yeah, I thought about the splashing and was thinking we should probably put it as high as possible. Hopefully our skimmers have that knockout back though!