Carbon Pre-Filters

[RecurveArcher]

I've been searching for and reading threads on using filters for fill water and many seem to have conflicting information; iron in particular, some say the filters don't do anything to help "soluble" iron, only visible, which the pool filter should be able to pick up anyhow, others say they have good results filtering the fill water. I don't want to waste money on expensive disposable filters, so I'm hoping for some clarification; even if these filters don't remove all metals that can cause discoloration or staining, are they still beneficial in other ways, or a waste of money? I'm considering installing some in-line filters on the line that runs to the pool-house (which is typically what I use for fill water); I figure in-line would be more cost-effective than the hose attachment versions, but don't want to waste the money if it's not really helping. That line does go through our softener (which is under-powered, but helps), so it's already getting some filtering there. I do fill occasionally with the non-softened (and unfiltered) water depending on the hardness level in the pool, but the well water is so hard I only top it off with the un-softened water maybe 20% of the time.

We're on well; here's the ballpark results from a test we did last year:
Hardness: 1000+
Chlorine: 0.25
Alkalinity: 200
pH: 9
Nitrite: 0.25
Nitrate: 2.5
Copper: 0.6
Iron: 1

 

[AUSpool]

I like the idea of filtered water, I use a pair of 0.5 micron carbon filters for our drinking water in the kitchen but wouldn't use it for the whole house because the high flow rate. I'd be changing filters every second week with the potential of little gain. I get no change in TDS between the inlet and outlet of my carbon filters.

 

[needsajet]

Hopefully Swampwoman pops up; I think she uses fill water filters for iron (your copper is significant too). I'll page her and some others to chip in. Swampwoman would be a great help for you.

 

[duraleigh]

Save your money and buy an adequate water softener. Soluble iron and copper and calcium don't filter through mechanical filtration with any effectiveness.

You CH is too high. Your iron is too high. Your copper is too high. I can't imagine a mechanical filter making a dent in that water.

Posting pool store test results from last year?? That in itself is the first issue to solve. Break out that TF-100 you have listed and do your own testing. I think you'll be surprised at the new readings.

 

[Swampwoman]

^Dave is correct in that soluable iron does not filter well mechanically, BUT let me put the mitigating factors in financial perspective...

By way of background, my raw well water is 2 ppm iron.

So I only fill from softener, (a dual system for constant regeneration) which might get iron on output down to about .5 ppm.

Adding a big blue Pentek 10" filter housing to my pool spigot cost me a one time investment of $35. Changing the 10" 25-to-1 micron filer costs $12 a year. My net iron output via big blue seems to be down around .2 ppm...it clearly gets more of the iron than softener alone.

By comparison, Jack's magic for swg (purple) costs $25 a bottle and I'm more or less getting away with one bottle a month instead of 2. An AA treatment, with polyquat 60 etc. can easily cost $50 or more, especially if you're not getting AA wholesale...and its a PITA to do.

The higher your iron, the more sequestrant you need to avoid staining. The only hope to dilute the concentration level in the pool is iron-free freshwater.

So in my opinion, the extra filtration is the cheapest way on earth to reduce the iron buildup. Its cheaper than trucking new water, cheaper than extra sequestrant, and for the moment, cheaper than buying an iron curtain system specifically to filter iron (about $2 k or more for a dual rated.)

When you're on well, these are your options.

Water treatment plants regularly use mechanical filtration as a metal reduction strategy for iron. Its not that it doesn't work per se, its just that it only works on a certain percentage of the iron.

That percentage, however, makes quite a difference

So my vote is to add a reducer filter down to 1 micron and test your output going forward. You will need to consider a partial water change to get your iron concentration (and calcium) down to manageable levels, which may mean Reverse Osmosis or trucking in some freshwater...but after the one time correction, you then need to control the buildup.

Hope that helps put your situation in perspective

 

[Leebo]

My approach would be slightly different. I personally would look into trucking in fresh water and use rainwater for my source of filling. The initial cost will be higher but the work involved long term will be greatly reduced. Seeing you have an auto-cover and a cartridge filter your water loss over the season is likely very low. Redirect any gutters towards your pool and open the cover up during any rainfall and it's likely you won't need to "top it off" very often.

 

[Swampwoman]

^Theres no reason not to do all of the above where applicable, but even with n autocover and regular summer usage on hot summer days, my bet is that top up months like August in Indiana could still indeed net situations where you want controlled tops up from a predictable source...depending on the year.

I find that when its easy to gather rain, there's also little need for supplemental water

SO, that means that folks like us in Indianna and Mich need to gather and STORE rainwater from spring and heavy rain periods, also diverting things from swales, recharging the watershed, etc. and...once you're into storing grey water, you need a storage cistern, because in my case (uncovered in summer) I need between 600-1200 gallons a week for a 600' surface. That's a lot of rain barrels Some years in these parts lately boaters can walk out to the end of their docs Other years my neighbors on the river are surrounded...

At any rate, my second suggestion to OP, if not implicit in my first response, is that 90% of the time if you're filling from a single softener, you will tap it out and unwittingly be dumping raw well water in.

I noticed that after my first season of switching to softened water. I upgraded to a dual system automated to switch over for constant regeneration and that made a major and notable difference in iron levels.

If you don't mind the $1,000 or more to truck water, its a good way to get a clean start, but either way, if you find yourself needing to fill from a tap, a filter is your friend and seriously is very little work at all. With a 10" on a softened line, check it when you check your furnace filters and count on changing it maybe once a year

 

[AUSpool]

If you shop arround you might be able to find a 0.5 micron spun prefilter.

 

[RecurveArcher]

Thank you all for the info. The pool needs some repairs, so whenever we (come up with the money to) do those, we’ll have new water trucked in. Even if the well water was “good” I estimated it’d take about 20 days to fill the pool that way, and I don’t want to risk drying out the well. At ~$1400, no plans to re-fill the pool with trucked-in water until needed. And correct, we don’t lose much water; I think I topped it off maybe 4 times last year (after the initial opening where it had been partially drained). We likely won’t leave it open in the rain because we don’t have a fence, so it becomes a safety/liability issue to leave the cover open when unattended.

What’s a good option to test the metals before and after any solution is added? The tests on TFTestKits are $100 for the two of them (iron & copper), which is a bit pricey for something I’d rarely test (or should I be testing those more often?). The results I posted were from a single-use Lowe’s-bought kit that we did shortly after buying the house. All my pool testing has been done with the TF-100 (which I’ve also used to confirm some of the Lowe’s kit test results - where possible).

And Swampwoman, not to get too far off topic, but would you be willing to provide a little more info on your softener setup? That’s another item I’ve been trying to decide how to handle. Even turned all the way up, the current softener only gets the cold water down to the 150 range and the hot is up around 350, which tells me that it’s not powerful enough for our well water, and that the water heater (8 years old) likely has built up sediment in it that’s adding some hardness back into the water after leaving the softener. And as you said, on kid bath/shower days, or especially if we’re topping off the pool, it’s easily depleted before the end of the day. I’m kind of just waiting for the water heater to die before replacing it, but was also considering replacing or adding a 2^nd softener. Based on our well water, even the biggest softeners (expensive) are on the edge of providing adequate capacity (based on online calculators). It sounds like you have them running separately (what determines how/when they switch?), but I was thinking of running a 2^nd in series, both at lower regeneration levels. Open to any suggestions in this area as well.

And to confirm; I’m looking at these:
- Pentek 150469 3/4" #10 Big Blue Filter Housing
- Pentek DGD-2501 Spun Polypropylene Filter Cartridge, 10" x 4-1/2"

 

[Swampwoman]

Hi there.
Re: testing -- not highly accurate but better than nothing and comparatively cheap are Lamotte iron and copper test strips.

Re: Softeners -- when we bought this house, a friend mentioned that with higher iron we'd be as well off renting softeners as opposed to purchasing -- because the need to replace etc. then falls to the rental company (iron is hard on them). So we rent from a local company, and as such, can't tell you quite as much as if I'd purchased, BUT here's a pic of the set up -- dual tanks running off one meter, two lines.

Hope that helps:

Update- Here's what my water guy said to tell you:
Mine is a Twin Tank Clack system, rated 1,900 gallons per tank in my system based on my well and my well gpm -- (ymmv).

Look for an INDEPENDENT water treatment vendor (eg. Culligan cannot get the Clack multi meters). Clack is the second largest mfg of the Clack control valve, from which you can run multiple tanks.

It is configured/controlled to switch over automatically, at which time the spent tank immediately regenerates.

 

[camueller]

Hi there.
Re: testing -- not highly accurate but better than nothing and comparatively cheap are Lamotte iron and copper test strips.

Re: Softeners -- when we bought this house, a friend mentioned that with higher iron we'd be as well off renting softeners as opposed to purchasing -- because the need to replace etc. then falls to the rental company (iron is hard on them). So we rent from a local company, and as such, can't tell you quite as much as if I'd purchased, BUT here's a pic of the set up -- dual tanks running off one meter, two lines.

Hope that helps:

Update- Here's what my water guy said to tell you:
Mine is a Twin Tank Clack system, rated 1,900 gallons per tank in my system based on my well and my well gpm -- (ymmv).

Look for an INDEPENDENT water treatment vendor (eg. Culligan cannot get the Clack multi meters). Clack is the second largest mfg of the Clack control valve, from which you can run multiple tanks.

It is configured/controlled to switch over automatically, at which time the spent tank immediately regenerates.

View attachment 57016
View attachment 57017

That's a nice looking setup. I have a single tank Clack WS-1 with 48k grain capacity at my house and just got it through a friend in the industry and installed it myself. Cost was a little less than $500. We have 30 gpg water and this thing works great. I love it.

I'm curious, how much is your rental and how often do you have to replace the unit? From what I understand, high iron and or chlorine/chloramines kill the resin quick, but the rest of the unit is fine.

 

[Swampwoman]

Sorry I missed your comment. I think the dual is about $50 a mo...I'll check te bill...we also have them deliver and restock the salt so that might be in the figure

The resin bed on the first, single filter was pretty fouled after the first 2 years I believe...they change it when necessary. With the dual we've been running a few years now and to my knowledge they've not yet had to address the resin.

For us, since we were used to paying a water bill before moving here, we opted for rental and service to just no worry about it or lug salt, and to have the freedom to change the set up any time we wanted. We've considered doing the iron curtain, but just don't have enough space in the mechanical room to do both

At any rate, you should be able to just upgrade your meter and add a second tank

 

[camueller]

Sorry I missed your comment. I think the dual is about $50 a mo...I'll check te bill...we also have them deliver and restock the salt so that might be in the figure

The resin bed on the first, single filter was pretty fouled after the first 2 years I believe...they change it when necessary. With the dual we've been running a few years now and to my knowledge they've not yet had to address the resin.

For us, since we were used to paying a water bill before moving here, we opted for rental and service to just no worry about it or lug salt, and to have the freedom to change the set up any time we wanted. We've considered doing the iron curtain, but just don't have enough space in the mechanical room to do both

At any rate, you should be able to just upgrade your meter and add a second tank

Your logic makes perfect sense to me. I can't say I blame you about not wanting to lug around the salt, and that price isn't bad. I actually just upgraded mine to the single tank Clack WS1 recently from an old timer based Autotrol unit that had a small 8" diameter resin tank and was missing half of it's resin. We bought the house with the unit a year ago and knew nothing about it. The previous owner had it set to regenerate every other day and I just left it at that for a long time until I decided I wanted a metered unit and had a friend that could get it to me.