It turns off the in ground cleaning system (pressure gauge shows 0) and it turns on the waterfall flow.
Can anyone help me understand my pool equipment?
- Thread starter Alexr54
- Start date
It turns off the in ground cleaning system (pressure gauge shows 0) and it turns on the waterfall flow.
I think that is the way to turn your cleaner on/off. It's not the Ultraflex box that does it. It's just stopping water flow to the cleaner by closing that valve. I'm not familiar with your automation, but it should be activated by a valve setting through that box.
I recall a question earlier about your "waterfall". Can you show us a picture of that water when it's on?
I recall a question earlier about your "waterfall". Can you show us a picture of that water when it's on?
Just to be clear, you have a waterfall and a spa spillover???
Some of your plumbing does not make any sense... In your case, you can never just shut off the waterfall without turning on the in-floor system... A real puzzle..
Or... Do you actually have eyeball water returns in the walls of your pool? Maybe all the return water has to flow through your in-floor system??? I need to read up more on your Caretaker system.
At least you know the valve turns and maybe what control panel button makes it turn..
Thanks,
Jim R.
Yea every time I feel like I’m understanding the system it’s always something else that gets me off.
From what I understand about the in ground cleaning system it does not work as a suction, just sprayers. It’s supposed to spray any debris over to the deep end for the suction there to get it.
Also the waterfall is a zone for the in floor cleaning system too. So the waterfall spills over for about a minute when it’s on it’s zone. Same for the spa overflow.
But yes, when I turn off the cleaning system then it’s just the waterfall overflow, but never at the same time.
Here is a picture of both the spa and waterfall.
They each have a overflow.
Alex, do you have an idea of the order of zones? Do you know if the 1 minute waterfall zone happens immediately after the 1 minute spa spillover zone?
Second question: given there are 2 ways for the waterfall to go on, which one is higher flow? The one minute cleaner rotation, or when the valve closes the cleaner and you have full-time waterfall?
Second question: given there are 2 ways for the waterfall to go on, which one is higher flow? The one minute cleaner rotation, or when the valve closes the cleaner and you have full-time waterfall?
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Alex,
I understand that your in-floor cleaner sprays a stream of water (one head at a time) to move any debris towards a collection drain. I had "assumed" that you also had regular return pipes with eyeballs in the pool wall to return water to the pool when the in-floor was not on. But after reading a little about your in-floor system, is sounds like when a cleaning head is not up and cleaning, it is allowing return water to pass through and into the bottom of the pool.
I was trying to find a return path for the water without going through the in-floor system.
Sounds like you have got everything figured out except the down position of the manual valve... Maybe Dodger can fill us in on what the purpose of the "Pressure Relief" valve is...???
Thanks for putting up with me...
Jim R.
I understand that your in-floor cleaner sprays a stream of water (one head at a time) to move any debris towards a collection drain. I had "assumed" that you also had regular return pipes with eyeballs in the pool wall to return water to the pool when the in-floor was not on. But after reading a little about your in-floor system, is sounds like when a cleaning head is not up and cleaning, it is allowing return water to pass through and into the bottom of the pool.
I was trying to find a return path for the water without going through the in-floor system.
Sounds like you have got everything figured out except the down position of the manual valve... Maybe Dodger can fill us in on what the purpose of the "Pressure Relief" valve is...???
Thanks for putting up with me...
Jim R.
The flow is just about the same both ways for the waterfall.
This is the exact order for the ultraflex zones. Starting with the waterfall first.
1. Waterfall overflow
2. Spa overflow only no popups
3. Middle top main return hole
4. Shallow end - stairs
5. Mid shallow end
6. Spa pop ups and spa overflow
7. Mid deeper end
8. Deep end
My apologies for the long post. Let me know when you wake up.
I have only a tiny experience to share and it is different than Alex's plumbing. The Pressure Relief Valve for the Caretaker in-floor system is installed BEFORE the 5-port Caretaker valve. So if pressure builds up trying to get through any port of the Caretaker valve, the back-pressure can be released through the Pressure Relief Valve, which is plumbed back to the pool wall returns, bypassing the 2-way valve that selected the Caretaker line. I assume there is some kind of pressure threshold (30 lbs?) the Relief valve has to reach before water actually goes through it.
This unknown for Alex is nagging me and I still feel like this valve position is related to the Pressure Relief Valve line.
Not only that, I am actually still confused about the description of Up and Down for this manual valve. I don't know if that means the lever is up/down, or the OFF is up/down. In all the pictures, this manual valve is sideways and in between up/down, isn't it?
Also, I don't have a sense for what the "sprayers" are?
Okay, never mind on this.
I'm trying to figure out what zone is tied to the position that tees off to the Pressure Relief Valve so we can have an idea why it's there. Not sure what #3 "middle top main return hole" is. I'm guessing the Pressure Relief is either for that or the waterfall.
The 2 spa zones should have check valves. I think I see a screw or something 180 degrees from the Jandy check valve port (at 3 o'clock vs 9 o'clock). Can you scoop away some of the lava rock to see if there is anything there?
I have only a tiny experience to share and it is different than Alex's plumbing. The Pressure Relief Valve for the Caretaker in-floor system is installed BEFORE the 5-port Caretaker valve. So if pressure builds up trying to get through any port of the Caretaker valve, the back-pressure can be released through the Pressure Relief Valve, which is plumbed back to the pool wall returns, bypassing the 2-way valve that selected the Caretaker line. I assume there is some kind of pressure threshold (30 lbs?) the Relief valve has to reach before water actually goes through it.
This unknown for Alex is nagging me and I still feel like this valve position is related to the Pressure Relief Valve line.
Not only that, I am actually still confused about the description of Up and Down for this manual valve. I don't know if that means the lever is up/down, or the OFF is up/down. In all the pictures, this manual valve is sideways and in between up/down, isn't it?
Also, I don't have a sense for what the "sprayers" are?
Okay, never mind on this.
I'm trying to figure out what zone is tied to the position that tees off to the Pressure Relief Valve so we can have an idea why it's there. Not sure what #3 "middle top main return hole" is. I'm guessing the Pressure Relief is either for that or the waterfall.
The 2 spa zones should have check valves. I think I see a screw or something 180 degrees from the Jandy check valve port (at 3 o'clock vs 9 o'clock). Can you scoop away some of the lava rock to see if there is anything there?
Hootz
Bronze Supporter
- Feb 5, 2018
- 374
- Pool Size
- 24000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
I apologize for adding to the confusion due to my misunderstanding of the Jandy valve. They are just the opposite of a ball valve; when the Jandy two way valve handle is 90 degrees to the pipe it allows flow through the valve; the valve is question is open in the picture. This was clarified by Jimrahbe in this thread.
My overnight thoughts are this:
You don't want to leave the manual valve in the position where OFF is Up and blocking any flow from the Pressure Relief valve. If there is pressure buildup at the Ultraflex, you are blocking its ability to relieve the pressure without blowing something.
The middle/sideways OFF that is shown in all the pictures allows any excess Ultraflex pressure to travel to the front of that 3-way and into the ground to wherever that pipe goes. You may or may not see any change in activity in this position, because it would only be triggered in the case where there is excess pressure pushing water through the Pressure Relief. That is fine. It is just an outlet option. If you see something always in this position (like sprayers?), that indicates to me that the Pressure Relief valve is always triggered. Hmmm.
The OFF blocking the bottom - not sure if this was your sprayer action or something else. Sorry, still confused what you saw or didn't see in that position. Seems to me it just reroutes the pressure relief through that tee and back to the front right automated valve (waterfall or Ultraflex.)
You don't want to leave the manual valve in the position where OFF is Up and blocking any flow from the Pressure Relief valve. If there is pressure buildup at the Ultraflex, you are blocking its ability to relieve the pressure without blowing something.
The middle/sideways OFF that is shown in all the pictures allows any excess Ultraflex pressure to travel to the front of that 3-way and into the ground to wherever that pipe goes. You may or may not see any change in activity in this position, because it would only be triggered in the case where there is excess pressure pushing water through the Pressure Relief. That is fine. It is just an outlet option. If you see something always in this position (like sprayers?), that indicates to me that the Pressure Relief valve is always triggered. Hmmm.
The OFF blocking the bottom - not sure if this was your sprayer action or something else. Sorry, still confused what you saw or didn't see in that position. Seems to me it just reroutes the pressure relief through that tee and back to the front right automated valve (waterfall or Ultraflex.)
First let me apologize when my terminology is off.
I really am new to all of this.
In the picture I posted of the manual valve with up/down written on it. I will try to explain better the behavior I see when I use this valve.
In the position it’s in on all the pictures it seems to run most normally.
When it’s in the DOWN position (like how it’s labeled in the picture) I call it’ “sprayers” but what it is is actually 2 additional wall returns, with sprayer attachments. These wall returns only turn on when the manual valve in question is in the down position (handle pulled down). And the in ground system is off.
I guessed this was for possibly churning up and moving the surface water towards the deep end (besides being extremely fun for the kids) since both of these wall returns are more on the shallow end of the pool with the main wall return in the middle of the pool.
When it’s in the UP position I see no major change. It’s possible there is more flow to the main wall return line. But I can’t really tell. The in ground cleaning system continues to work in this position too.
I really am new to all of this.
In the picture I posted of the manual valve with up/down written on it. I will try to explain better the behavior I see when I use this valve.
In the position it’s in on all the pictures it seems to run most normally.
When it’s in the DOWN position (like how it’s labeled in the picture) I call it’ “sprayers” but what it is is actually 2 additional wall returns, with sprayer attachments. These wall returns only turn on when the manual valve in question is in the down position (handle pulled down). And the in ground system is off.
I guessed this was for possibly churning up and moving the surface water towards the deep end (besides being extremely fun for the kids) since both of these wall returns are more on the shallow end of the pool with the main wall return in the middle of the pool.
When it’s in the UP position I see no major change. It’s possible there is more flow to the main wall return line. But I can’t really tell. The in ground cleaning system continues to work in this position too.
Alex, no apologies necessary. I am almost as new as you on some of these things, and I do find that everyone here uses different terminology. It's one reason I like to use pictures and labels and links.
So you have a main wall return in the middle of the pool. I'm guessing this is what you referred to as #3 "middle top main return hole". This means you have 3 of the 8 Ultraflex positions that do not go to pop-ups - #1 waterfall, #2 spa return jets only, #3 mid-pool return jet. Correct me if I'm wrong on this interpretation of your #3. That mid-pool return jet appears to be the one with the Pressure Relief off of the Ultraflex valve. #2 position (Spa wall returns only) would then be that port at 9 o'clock with the big Jandy check valve.
It sounds like you have 2 shallow-end wall returns (previously referred to as sprayers) and these are fed by the pipe coming straight down out of the manual valve and going into the ground. I think you are right that these are intended to give you water circulation while the floor system is off.
From a safety point of view, I think it's important to coordinate the manual valve position and the right front actuated valve.
1. The only time the manual valve should have OFF UP and handle down is if the actuated valve is closed to the Ultraflex (open to the waterfall). This way, no pressure can build up in the Ultraflex when its Pressure Relief is blocked. You are naturally doing this for the shallow end return result, but you should also consider the safety angle.
The reason this combination gives enough pressure to those fun shallow-end sprayers is because the Ultraflex is not hogging the water supply, as Jim mentioned in an earlier post on this thread. In this combination, water flow from the salt cell should split between the tee to the manual valve then down into the ground, and to the waterfall through the front right actuated valve. This is what I would call "Fun Kid Mode" with waterfall and shallow end wall jets.
2. When the actuated front right valve is open to the Ultraflex, the manual valve has 2 remaining choices:
__a. Sideways - Mostly, this should not provide any flow to the shallow end wall returns, unless there is >30psi on that Pressure Relief Valve. If that is happening, it is something worth investigating because too much pressure is building up in the Ultraflex.
__b. OFF Down (handle up) - This sends any pressure relief back to the supply side of the Ultraflex, which doesn't seem like a great idea to me. I don't see any reason to use this combination of the 2 valves, so I would avoid it unless someone else has a suggestion about its use.
So you have a main wall return in the middle of the pool. I'm guessing this is what you referred to as #3 "middle top main return hole". This means you have 3 of the 8 Ultraflex positions that do not go to pop-ups - #1 waterfall, #2 spa return jets only, #3 mid-pool return jet. Correct me if I'm wrong on this interpretation of your #3. That mid-pool return jet appears to be the one with the Pressure Relief off of the Ultraflex valve. #2 position (Spa wall returns only) would then be that port at 9 o'clock with the big Jandy check valve.
It sounds like you have 2 shallow-end wall returns (previously referred to as sprayers) and these are fed by the pipe coming straight down out of the manual valve and going into the ground. I think you are right that these are intended to give you water circulation while the floor system is off.
From a safety point of view, I think it's important to coordinate the manual valve position and the right front actuated valve.
1. The only time the manual valve should have OFF UP and handle down is if the actuated valve is closed to the Ultraflex (open to the waterfall). This way, no pressure can build up in the Ultraflex when its Pressure Relief is blocked. You are naturally doing this for the shallow end return result, but you should also consider the safety angle.
The reason this combination gives enough pressure to those fun shallow-end sprayers is because the Ultraflex is not hogging the water supply, as Jim mentioned in an earlier post on this thread. In this combination, water flow from the salt cell should split between the tee to the manual valve then down into the ground, and to the waterfall through the front right actuated valve. This is what I would call "Fun Kid Mode" with waterfall and shallow end wall jets.
2. When the actuated front right valve is open to the Ultraflex, the manual valve has 2 remaining choices:
__a. Sideways - Mostly, this should not provide any flow to the shallow end wall returns, unless there is >30psi on that Pressure Relief Valve. If that is happening, it is something worth investigating because too much pressure is building up in the Ultraflex.
__b. OFF Down (handle up) - This sends any pressure relief back to the supply side of the Ultraflex, which doesn't seem like a great idea to me. I don't see any reason to use this combination of the 2 valves, so I would avoid it unless someone else has a suggestion about its use.
I went digging in a bit more and noticed the in ground cleaning system has 2 check valves. One at the 9 o’clock and one at the 1 o’clock position.
Both are for the hot tub which is raised.
Found a leak coming out the 1 o’clock position one, and found the 9 o’clock position one is completely missing the flap.
This explains some water loss I put off as evaporation. Also explains water draining back into the pool from the spa.
Parts are on order and will be replaced as soon as they arrive.
This thread has helped me tremendously!
Both are for the hot tub which is raised.
Found a leak coming out the 1 o’clock position one, and found the 9 o’clock position one is completely missing the flap.
This explains some water loss I put off as evaporation. Also explains water draining back into the pool from the spa.
Parts are on order and will be replaced as soon as they arrive.
This thread has helped me tremendously!
