Just a bit of background. I apologize in advance for the long post.....
As a general contractor - in 2013 - I had a Grand Rapids pool contractor (Signature Pools) build our gunite pool in our backyard (see pic). They did a decent job .... but my water chemistry problems started when they didn't give me any real initial startup instructions when filling the pool. Beautiful CF Black Onyx finish. Knowing what I do know after this and other forum tips - I would have checked the city water calcium and made an adjusting mixture and added it to the first 500 gallons.
Filled the pool from the city fire hydrant. 20K gallon pool. Their plumber who didn't give me a test kit or any chemicals and came back 2 days after pool was filled to "manage" the water chemistry ... found the problem I had told them about after the first day. The plaster was "mottled" looking and not close to the even dark onyx color finish after the plasters finished troweling the pool. Air temp was 65 deg that day - sunny - plasters were the same company that built the gunite pool - Michigan Gunite or close - The owner told me that the dark colors normally take a year or a season to "self-clean" these "mottling" issues up - so not to worry. I told him it was not acceptable after doing a little bit of research. The plumber came and drained the pool - acid washed it and then had me refill it from the hydrant ... all within 2 weeks or so of the initial pool fill. No testing of city water as I now know should have been done. So the same "mottling" issues have continued for the past 4 seasons. I have had minor stains (vertical white scale streaks) on the walls .... and small white dots on the bottom of the pool that can't be removed by sweeping/brushing.
I hired a local young pool tech who seemed knowledgeable - for pool maintenance and manage the water chemistry. He had 10 yrs experience in the pool industry - so he wasn't a rookie.
We started having a strange water problem in 2015 in the 3rd year of operations. The dark Onyx plaster pool finish had become "faded" and lightly spotted with 100-200 larger white scale spots on the pool bottom ... not larger than a pencil eraser head and most much smaller. They were fairly smooth and not raised. From the main jet closest to the pool equipment ... we would daily get a deposit of small white flakes/specs on the bottom of the pool dispersed out 5-10 feet. The other two pool outputs (much farther from the equipment) had much smaller quantities. We would vacuum them up and they would be back the next day. He worked with every water chemistry setting - going by the book - following his chem suppliers recommendations (I Know!!) ... and even had the small flakes analyzed. He inspected the Sta-Rite heater ... serviced the Intelli-clor IC40 SWCG (even replaced it) and nothing changed much or made sense. He tried adding some scale removal and that helped a bit but there still was some minor scale flaking most days. Never have had much problem with the pool line white calcium scale line buildup - but I regularly brush that area also.
Note - he always used powder Chlorine and MA and didn't try to use a lot of tricked up chemicals.
Also - in 2017 we stared getting more scale building on the walls - very light gray overcast ... and some visible scale buildup in one corner where the auto pool cover was about 3" from the tile and downwind ... NE corner. We found that the Autofill was running alot (we keep the pool covered 90% of the time - no real water loss from splashing) ... so I temp turned off the Autofill and watched the water level. In 24 hrs it dropped about a 1/2". We had the best leak detection company in Michigan stop and test all the plumbing - Compressed Nitrogen Gas - and found no leaks after 2 hrs of testing. Only real other possibility was the (2) pool light's conduit or gunite shell cracks (but careful inspection shows no cracks).
When closing the pool Nov 2017 - we had water chem good w 4.0 chlorine and PH at 7.4 Added algaecide and drained down 2 feet to just above the lights.
When opening the pool this last week - there was a light white scale all around the onyx gunite that was exposed over the winter below the tile line. There were white streaks down the walls under water and the pool bottom had a 1/8" thick white gray powdery layer of "calcium" I believe.
We shocked it and the water responded well and has been perfectly clear. So I started cleaning up the pool bottom. We have a Dolphin GX6 with the dual plastic screen filters. After every 90 min cleaning cycle ... there was 2-4# of fine light gray powder in the filter catch trays. It has taken me 10 Dolphin runs over the past 5 days and brushing the walls and floor - 2 times daily ... but the pool bottom is now clean of the scale/calcium dust.
I now know from reading all of the forum posts and Bob's - ChemGuy's water chem mgm tips ... that all the problems with the white scale and flakes - have been from poor management of the calcium and chem levels in the pool.
SO now I have tons of very small light gray specs and some whiter larger specs all over the pool bottom - worst in all of the past 5 years. I am going to be very patient and follow the forum tips to removing scale and calcium buildup from the gunite onyx finish.
WATER CHEMISTRY ...... Taken this morning
FC - 1.92
TC - 2.1
CYA - 16
PH - 7.4
ALK - 136
Ch - 236
SL - 3200
SO my plan of attack is ....
A - Raise CYA to 50 (powder CHL - small 2 cup batches in sock in skimmer - every 8 hrs until I hit 50 then maybe to 70-80 depending on forum feedback)
B - Lower ALK to 80-100 (MA to lower ALK and Borax raise PH if needed ... watch carefully over a 3-5 day cycle and start aeration steps if MA doesn't lower it)
C - Calcium looks good so I'm not going to play with it for now
D - Keep CHL down around 1.5-2.0
E - Keep PH down to no higher than 7.4 and goal is 7.0 to 7.2
I have new stainless (wide 24" and smaller 10") brushes and will start brushing the gunite surfaces twice daily with the hope that the water chem will slowing start leaching the calcium off the gunite.
I have considered using Easycare Scaletec Plus .... per some of the forum steps I have read ... but will wait to get feedback from this post. Pool actually looks really good except that the black onyx finish isn't bright and clean - its mottled and has the scale/calcium spots - film and vertical streaks on the sides in spots.
ALSO - before spring startup this year - I lowered the pool water - removed both pools lights - and carefully sealed the electrical conduit openings with lots of plumbers putty. I refilled the pool without turning on the Autofill and have noticed that the pool is still losing water ... about a 1/2" per day. I haven't tried the test .... raise CHL to 3.0 and don't run the pump for a few days (with autofill off) and see if the pool loses water?? Any other ideas?
SO - (2) main items I need feedback/help on ... scale problems and basic water chem ... and any ideas on stopping the pool leak.
Thanks Andy Roach
NOTE: POOL PICTURE WAS TAKEN DURING A RAIN!
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As a general contractor - in 2013 - I had a Grand Rapids pool contractor (Signature Pools) build our gunite pool in our backyard (see pic). They did a decent job .... but my water chemistry problems started when they didn't give me any real initial startup instructions when filling the pool. Beautiful CF Black Onyx finish. Knowing what I do know after this and other forum tips - I would have checked the city water calcium and made an adjusting mixture and added it to the first 500 gallons.
Filled the pool from the city fire hydrant. 20K gallon pool. Their plumber who didn't give me a test kit or any chemicals and came back 2 days after pool was filled to "manage" the water chemistry ... found the problem I had told them about after the first day. The plaster was "mottled" looking and not close to the even dark onyx color finish after the plasters finished troweling the pool. Air temp was 65 deg that day - sunny - plasters were the same company that built the gunite pool - Michigan Gunite or close - The owner told me that the dark colors normally take a year or a season to "self-clean" these "mottling" issues up - so not to worry. I told him it was not acceptable after doing a little bit of research. The plumber came and drained the pool - acid washed it and then had me refill it from the hydrant ... all within 2 weeks or so of the initial pool fill. No testing of city water as I now know should have been done. So the same "mottling" issues have continued for the past 4 seasons. I have had minor stains (vertical white scale streaks) on the walls .... and small white dots on the bottom of the pool that can't be removed by sweeping/brushing.
I hired a local young pool tech who seemed knowledgeable - for pool maintenance and manage the water chemistry. He had 10 yrs experience in the pool industry - so he wasn't a rookie.
We started having a strange water problem in 2015 in the 3rd year of operations. The dark Onyx plaster pool finish had become "faded" and lightly spotted with 100-200 larger white scale spots on the pool bottom ... not larger than a pencil eraser head and most much smaller. They were fairly smooth and not raised. From the main jet closest to the pool equipment ... we would daily get a deposit of small white flakes/specs on the bottom of the pool dispersed out 5-10 feet. The other two pool outputs (much farther from the equipment) had much smaller quantities. We would vacuum them up and they would be back the next day. He worked with every water chemistry setting - going by the book - following his chem suppliers recommendations (I Know!!) ... and even had the small flakes analyzed. He inspected the Sta-Rite heater ... serviced the Intelli-clor IC40 SWCG (even replaced it) and nothing changed much or made sense. He tried adding some scale removal and that helped a bit but there still was some minor scale flaking most days. Never have had much problem with the pool line white calcium scale line buildup - but I regularly brush that area also.
Note - he always used powder Chlorine and MA and didn't try to use a lot of tricked up chemicals.
Also - in 2017 we stared getting more scale building on the walls - very light gray overcast ... and some visible scale buildup in one corner where the auto pool cover was about 3" from the tile and downwind ... NE corner. We found that the Autofill was running alot (we keep the pool covered 90% of the time - no real water loss from splashing) ... so I temp turned off the Autofill and watched the water level. In 24 hrs it dropped about a 1/2". We had the best leak detection company in Michigan stop and test all the plumbing - Compressed Nitrogen Gas - and found no leaks after 2 hrs of testing. Only real other possibility was the (2) pool light's conduit or gunite shell cracks (but careful inspection shows no cracks).
When closing the pool Nov 2017 - we had water chem good w 4.0 chlorine and PH at 7.4 Added algaecide and drained down 2 feet to just above the lights.
When opening the pool this last week - there was a light white scale all around the onyx gunite that was exposed over the winter below the tile line. There were white streaks down the walls under water and the pool bottom had a 1/8" thick white gray powdery layer of "calcium" I believe.
We shocked it and the water responded well and has been perfectly clear. So I started cleaning up the pool bottom. We have a Dolphin GX6 with the dual plastic screen filters. After every 90 min cleaning cycle ... there was 2-4# of fine light gray powder in the filter catch trays. It has taken me 10 Dolphin runs over the past 5 days and brushing the walls and floor - 2 times daily ... but the pool bottom is now clean of the scale/calcium dust.
I now know from reading all of the forum posts and Bob's - ChemGuy's water chem mgm tips ... that all the problems with the white scale and flakes - have been from poor management of the calcium and chem levels in the pool.
SO now I have tons of very small light gray specs and some whiter larger specs all over the pool bottom - worst in all of the past 5 years. I am going to be very patient and follow the forum tips to removing scale and calcium buildup from the gunite onyx finish.
WATER CHEMISTRY ...... Taken this morning
FC - 1.92
TC - 2.1
CYA - 16
PH - 7.4
ALK - 136
Ch - 236
SL - 3200
SO my plan of attack is ....
A - Raise CYA to 50 (powder CHL - small 2 cup batches in sock in skimmer - every 8 hrs until I hit 50 then maybe to 70-80 depending on forum feedback)
B - Lower ALK to 80-100 (MA to lower ALK and Borax raise PH if needed ... watch carefully over a 3-5 day cycle and start aeration steps if MA doesn't lower it)
C - Calcium looks good so I'm not going to play with it for now
D - Keep CHL down around 1.5-2.0
E - Keep PH down to no higher than 7.4 and goal is 7.0 to 7.2
I have new stainless (wide 24" and smaller 10") brushes and will start brushing the gunite surfaces twice daily with the hope that the water chem will slowing start leaching the calcium off the gunite.
I have considered using Easycare Scaletec Plus .... per some of the forum steps I have read ... but will wait to get feedback from this post. Pool actually looks really good except that the black onyx finish isn't bright and clean - its mottled and has the scale/calcium spots - film and vertical streaks on the sides in spots.
ALSO - before spring startup this year - I lowered the pool water - removed both pools lights - and carefully sealed the electrical conduit openings with lots of plumbers putty. I refilled the pool without turning on the Autofill and have noticed that the pool is still losing water ... about a 1/2" per day. I haven't tried the test .... raise CHL to 3.0 and don't run the pump for a few days (with autofill off) and see if the pool loses water?? Any other ideas?
SO - (2) main items I need feedback/help on ... scale problems and basic water chem ... and any ideas on stopping the pool leak.
Thanks Andy Roach
NOTE: POOL PICTURE WAS TAKEN DURING A RAIN!
**********************************************************************************************************************************************************************
