Calcium Hardness and Vinyl limer

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C

Chris W

0
Sep 23, 2016
44
Morganton, NC
I have searched and not found an exact answer to my question.
I know for vinyl pool the TFP recommended CH is between 0-350.
I have also read on here that you never need to worry about low CH in a vinyl pool only too high, AND TO NEVER ADD CALCIUM.
The biggest issue I have is why such a HUGE range.
I use the paid version of the android pool calculator app.
My CH is 75, the app is telling the recommended level is 175, obviously 1/2 of 350.
It is also telling me to add 12lbs of Calcium Chloride.

TOO MANY CONFLICKING SUGGESTIONS/RECOMMENDATIONS.

H E L P

PS: On a positive note, almost a year on TFP, since initial SLAM Process, NO Algae, pool perfectly clear even leaving it open through the winter!

TFP FOR LIFE!

Chris
 
It’s unrealistic to suggest 0 CH because no water on the planet has zero calcium unless it’s been processed via a softener or by reverse osmosis. The point of the large range is that it’s not too important for a vinyl pool. You need some minimal CH to avoid foaming water (above 50ppm is fine) and you want to keep it below 400ppm to avoid any scaling issues. As far as the App goes, you can change the target value to whatever you want so, if you’re happy with your CH at 75ppm, then set your CH target to 75ppm.
 
JoyfulNoise said:
It’s unrealistic to suggest 0 CH because no water on the planet has zero calcium unless it’s been processed via a softener or by reverse osmosis. The point of the large range is that it’s not too important for a vinyl pool. You need some minimal CH to avoid foaming water (above 50ppm is fine) and you want to keep it below 400ppm to avoid any scaling issues. As far as the App goes, you can change the target value to whatever you want so, if you’re happy with your CH at 75ppm, then set your CH target to 75ppm.
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Keep it at 200... there is mainstream vinyl out there that is 18 to 20 calcium by weight.. it’s cheaper that plastizers, cost cutting measure... just sayin’
 
Chris:

Backyard Pool Super Store on E-Bay is the least expensive, but order carefully as there is a 20% restocking fee. I keep mine at recommended levels as both Hayward and Gulfstream require certain levels for warranty reasons. Also, keep track of results for any warranty issues.
 
Teald024 said:
so you're implying that low water CH will leach calcium out of a vinyl liner and cause some sort of failure of the liner??
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It’s an unknown problem. The industry hasn’t studied it much OR, if they have, they haven’t released any significant data on the subject. The biggest issue is raw material sourcing and variation as the vinyl sheets can come from multiple different suppliers. So, trying to nail down a straight answer isn’t easy.

There is calcium carbonate used in the material manufacturing.
 
Joyfulnoise:

For arguments sake, would it not be a bad idea to keep the CH levels at the 200 range in a liner pool, which technically will cost about $25 per at most (at least for my pool). This is given that you have not that much turnover. My fill water runs around 125 if I remember correctly, along with the yearly rain and draining below the skimmers for the closing procedure, I spend about $25 per year at most. My warranty on the SWG and heater require these levels. Would rather not take any chances for this little amount of money.
 
Catanzaro said:
Joyfulnoise:

For arguments sake, would it not be a bad idea to keep the CH levels at the 200 range in a liner pool, which technically will cost about $25 per at most (at least for my pool). This is given that you have not that much turnover. My fill water runs around 125 if I remember correctly, along with the yearly rain and draining below the skimmers for the closing procedure, I spend about $25 per year at most. My warranty on the SWG and heater require these levels. Would rather not take any chances for this little amount of money.
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Sure...whatever works best for you. This is why there’s a wide range so that you can choose whatever works best for you. The TFP ranges, if you stay within them, will generally result in well balanced water.
 
Chris W said:
I'm still confused, this exactly what I was talking about. LOL
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What is still confusing you??

Your original post used some nice CAPS LOCK and some “NEVER” statements. Here’s a general tip on statements that contain the word “NEVER” - treat them with skepticism as life rarely works in the extremes. As for the specific statement that one should NEVER add calcium to a vinyl pool, that is flat out false. What you should avoid doing is dumping any kInd of granular chemical into a pool to avoid having concentrated chemicals sitting against the pool surface. Calcium chloride in particular is exothermic when it dissolves and the heat generated can actually cause liner damage. Calcium hypochlorite is a concentrated bleaching agent that should not be allowed to sit against a liner to avoid damage. However, both chemicals can and do add calcium to the water and are fine to use if the need arises.
 

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JoyfulNoise said:
What is still confusing you??

Your original post used some nice CAPS LOCK and some “NEVER” statements. Here’s a general tip on statements that contain the word “NEVER” - treat them with skepticism as life rarely works in the extremes. As for the specific statement that one should NEVER add calcium to a vinyl pool, that is flat out false. What you should avoid doing is dumping any kInd of granular chemical into a pool to avoid having concentrated chemicals sitting against the pool surface. Calcium chloride in particular is exothermic when it dissolves and the heat generated can actually cause liner damage. Calcium hypochlorite is a concentrated bleaching agent that should not be allowed to sit against a liner to avoid damage. However, both chemicals can and do add calcium to the water and are fine to use if the need arises.
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Sorry to disappoint but I did read in a forum post, on this site, to NEVER ADD Calcium to a vinyl pool, in response to a question about adding Calcium, go figure.
I tried to find the post, but haven't yet, when I do I will post it for you.
Now it could have been someone that didn't know what they were talking about.
But, rest assured if I say I saw it, I did.

So, basically you are saying NEVER SAY NEVER, ironic.

THX for your concerns and suggestions.
 
I don't have warranties to worry about, all equipment 8 years old.

Just trying to find out what the appropriate level for CH actually is with a vinyl liner.

I know the local pool store, that I used previously, always keep it between 150 and 200 using a Taylor test kit.

She also had me add it directly to the pool and sweep it immediately, never had issue doing it that way, and liner looks the same where I added it each time as the rest of the pool liner.
Guess I have been doing that wrong too.
 
Guess I have been doing that wrong too.
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No wrong or right here, and do not kick yourself for this. It is what you are comfortable with, what works for you and your wallet.

Like I mentioned in my post before, the $25 per year is negligible and as Matt stated, the industry has not really studied much on this issue. We all know that liners are an expensive replacement (not like plaster), but if one can get a few more years on the color quality and liner, why not. My liner is showing some fading after 5 years and I can assume that the life of this liner is 12-15 years, that is without really concerned on how it looks. It would be nice if the industry studied everything about liners to a T, just like CYA/FC relationship as we know today.
 
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