Bubbles when the pump is off

[jonvanhorn]

Hello everyone.

Every morning, well after the pool has run for the day, I hear and see large bubble coming from the in floor pop ups and the waterfall. This typically is around 4am.

I have only been able to find resources on bubbles being created from a suction side air leak, nothing regarding bubbles when the pump is off.

Any suggestions where to start?

Thanks!

 

[setsailsoon]

jon,

Hi, it would help our experts help you if you can fill in your signature. Here's how to do it. My guess is you have an air switch at the spa and there's a couple of causes:

• The air switch at the pump end has failed. You can replace just the switch inside the box.
• Water in the air line back to the contacts. If you're a little handy you can replace the air line pretty easily or disconnect both ends and rig up a little pressure with a basket ball pump to push the water out but this does not work for very long (not sure why, maybe it's hard to get all the water out or there's a hole that it refills from).
• The contacts are bad.

Air switches are prone to failure. Replacing components is your cheapest route but it will fail again in a year or two. There are a couple of other ways to control. I used a spare relay in my automation system. Easy peasy to do and extremely reliable with my phone app. If you have a timer controlled pump Intermatic makes a single channel wireless remote transceiver system that's under $200 that will work if your spa is less than 100' away. There are a couple of hard wired options also that are about the same price.

If you do any of this work yourself you'll be working inside the controls for a 120 v or 240 v pump or blower. Don't do this unless you're competent to do so. Messing with power can cause serious injury or death.

I hope my guess is right and this is helpful.

Chris

 

[jonvanhorn]

Thank you Chris.

Updated my info, but I was probably misleading when I mentioned the waterfall. We do not have a spa pouring into the pool, it is a rock waterfall.

From what I can tell, I do not have the air switch you are referring to.

Pool Bubbles

• jonvanhorn
• Nov 24, 2019

 

[setsailsoon]

Jon,

Thanks for updating your info and videos, photo's are always a big help.

Yep, I was off base... and not familiar with your water fall. Let's see if I can get somebody more knowledgeable to help @Jimrahbe, @ajw22, @Bama Rambler @Texas Splash.

Chris

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jon,

You do seem to have an odd problem... Logic says that bubbles do not travel down when the pump is off, so if you have bubbles coming out of your In-floor system (IFCS) something is pushing them there when the pump is on.. When the pump is off they float up and find their way out of the IFCS as well as your waterfall...

That said, I have no clue what would cause this problem... If this were my pool, I would shut the IFCS off for a couple of days and see if I still had the problem. Not sure you can do this as some IFCS's are part of the pool returns and cannot be shut off.

Does you pump's basket drain back into the pool when the pump is off? When you start up for the day, do you see and hear a ton of large bubbles coming from your returns?

Show us some pics of your equipment pad and tell us how your IFCS integrates into your pool.

I see that you have Solar.. Not sure how it could cause the problem, but I would also shut if off for a couple of days and see if the problem went away.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[jonvanhorn]

Thanks for the help everyone.

I agree Jim, it is an odd problem. None of the local guys can figure it out.

I've gone without the solar for a few days, no change to that. I'll try turning off the IFCS now. I can change it to waterfall only.

The basket does not drain when the pump is off, only when the pump is off and then if I remove the cover for the basket it drains.

There are lots of bubbles for the first 10 seconds or so when it starts up for the day. I don't really know much about how it is integrated, I am the 2nd owner of this pool and a 1st time pool owner.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jon,

I do not see any IFCS...

Do the heads in the pool pop up and force dirt to move toward a drain or are they just floor returns??

When you turn on the pump first thing in the morning, there should be no bubbles coming out of the returns..

I would manually start the pump after it sits all night and at the same time open the air relieve valve on the filter and see if you get a bunch of air or water.. It should be water..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Bama Rambler]

Is your equipment above or below the pool water line (I suspect above, but want to make sure)?

Your video looks like trapped air that's being released after the pump is shut off.
It kinda looks likes your solar loop is being pressurized with air and then pushes it back into the system when the pump shuts off. I'm just guessing here.

 

[jonvanhorn]

Good morning.

Yes, there is an IFCS. The valve controls a mix between the waterfall and the IFCS. I turned the valve to allow water to only flow to the waterfall, and did not notice bubbles this morning. I'll look and listen again tomorrow morning to verify.

My equipment is all above the pool water level.

 

[Bama Rambler]

What pressure does your gauge normally show when running?

 

[jonvanhorn]

Quick update, turning the valve return to the waterfall only has not fixed the bubbles.
I am sitting on the patio after the pool has been off for ~1 hour and water is now trickling out of the waterfall.

The air bubble theory makes total sense to me. It appears to slowly be pushing its way through the system and out of the return.

What else should I test to locate the issue?

 

[Bama Rambler]

I still think it's backing up into your solar loop and then releasing when you shut the pump off.

That short vertical piece on the left in the line labeled "To Pool" above the 3-way valve should be a check valve. That may be leaking back.

What does your filter pressure normally run?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jon,

Now that Dave has pointed it out, it could well be a solar issue... I would turn solar back on and see what happens to the bubbles...

Although I don't understand how a bad check valve would actually cause the bubbles, I think it is something to check out.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[jonvanhorn]

Thanks everyone for the help.

Finally figured it out!

It was the Manual Air Relief Assembly that had failed. One of the local pool guys mentioned that it looked like the "old style" and to give a new one a shot.

Works perfect now. Hopefully this might help someone else in the future.