brown stain along water line

[Olivera]

New hot tub owner here, 380 gallon. The hot tub was filled 2 days. I've got the Taylor testing kit and got chemicals under control (3 FC, 7.2 PH, 50 TA, CH 200) but noticed brown stains along the water line today (easily removed with a sponge) and wondering if its minerals from our well water. We have not gone in the hot tub yet. Seller never sent a sequestration agent. I wonder if I should either 1/ get the hot tub filled with municipal water instead ie start over, or 2/ start with sequestration agent and see how it goes. What's your thoughts? Which sequestration agent would you recommend to get in Canada?

Also was reading about the Aasome product, I read in one thread that doing a early water change with aasome is a good idea in case of biofilm in plumbing from factory testing.

CYA was 0 yesterday, will test again today to see if the dichlor (roughly a tablespoon a day) is starting to increase the CYA level to recommended range before switching to liquid chlorine.

Final question, where can I order borates in Canada?

Appreciate the help, this forum is so helpful!!

Thanks

 

[Texas Splash]

wondering if its minerals from our well water.

If you are on a well, then there could be some issues there. Doing a thorough purge of even new tubs with Ahh-Some has proven to be very important. It helps to remove residual oils & films from the factory.

@Mdragger88 might have a couple other tips to share.

Welcome to TFP!

 

[Mdragger88]

If it wipes away it kinda sounds like biofilms. Was it present before adding chlorine? Upon adding chlorine did the water change color? If it was there before chlorine it’s probably just crud from manufacturing.
An Ahhsome purge is the answer there. For now, Keep wiping it away. You may want to clean your filter soon.
If it’s iron, & any of those reactions happened after adding chlorine, You ideally want to get rid of it not just hide it with a sequesterant.
Here’s how you would go about that

Iron Fill Water Filter - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

If you have a skimmer you can try to use some polyfill to filter it out , I would suggest putting it in a mesh laundry bag so you don’t risk any getting in your plumbing.
Don’t waste your cya reagent- use
PoolMath effects of adding to see & calculate your cya until you think it will be at a readable level.
For borates you just want 100% boric acid (granular/technical grade) i try to avoid powder although it’s not terrible in small amounts.
In the states duda diesel/duda energy, bulk apothecary, & florida labs carry it - it looks like they ship to canada if purchased on amazon. You don’t need much for a hot tub so a 5# bag would last for multiple fills
Duda Energy - borp5f borp5 Fine Powder Boric Acid H3BO3 99, 5 lb. https://a.co/d/iYs8QDI

 

[Krulligo]

Should always purge a new tub with ahh-some. Those tubs get filled at the manufacturer for testing and leak detection. Then they are drained after they pass. Residual water stays in the plumbing and then the tub sits until it gets sold. Lots of nasties can grow in that time.

As for borates in Canada I use 20 Mule Team Borax. Get it from Home Depot or Canadian Tire here in Canada. I have a 380g tub as well. For 50ppm borates you need to add 650g of borax then counter the pH with 320ml of muriatic acid (usually I need a little bit more acid after it stabilizes). I usually pre-dissolve half the borax, pour it in with jets running for mixing, then about 15mins later I pour in half the muriatic acid very slowly. Then let it mix again and repeat with second half. Total cost in Canada to do this is after each refill is around $4 or less.

 

[Mdragger88]

There’s also lubricants & things left over from manufacturing. So that’s a possibility here as well.

 

[Olivera]

Wow extremely helpful, thank you all for your input!

Plan is to:
- purge with ahhsome tomorrow
-refill with municipal water. anyone has tips on correctly emptying the hot tub? Will be using a sump pump. Not sure what to do with the jets when emptying.
- dichlor to liquid chlorine when cya reaches 30. Stay on top of all other parameters (ph,ta,ch). Do you find a tablespoon of dichlor at the end of the day is a good routine initially? And perhaps some after each soak? How often do you test the first week?
- add the boric acid when it arrives, will also have the purchase testing kit for that I guess? (I have the Taylor 2005 kit to also be able to measure bromine if ever needed but didn’t end up going that route). Thanks for the Amazon link, bought the 5 pound bag, although the borax method sounds nice too. Any idea how much powder I would need for a 380 gallon hot tub?

Thanks all!!

 

[Mdragger88]

For boric acid you need almost 1# in your volume to reach 50ppm.
Use
PoolMath to calculate amounts.
There are taylor borate strips but for a hot tub I just add 50ppm worth upon fresh fill & let it ride since Hot tubs should be purged, drained,& refilled regularly anyway (every 3-6months). As I replace water due to splashout I reduce my borate # in PoolMath as to not overshoot my acid additions. I have tested borates & Usually by refill time I have about 30ppm left. YMMV.
For chlorine- you want to replenish what is needed for your current bather load + account for what will be consumed during standby ensuring your fc never falls below minimum for your cya lest nasties will grow quickly
FC/CYA Levels
Testing before & after use (& daily if no use) will help you figure out how much that needs to be based on your current bather load etc.
before long you will know what you need-
Example from my tub when manually chlorinating: if cya is 30;
If I start my soak in target range @6ppm I know won’t fall below minimum before the end of my 30 minuteish 2 person soak, upon exiting the tub I have maybe 3ppm so then I may dose to 10 ppm to make up for the bather waste (cuz there’s still more to oxidize) & account for standby until I test again 24 hours later at which time fc is around 6 ppm & the cycle begins again. This is just an example- the exact numbers can vary. Your fc consumption due to bather waste/ soak time may be lower than mine as I have a very small tub. For instance, When I soak for 30 minutes alone the fc consumption is much lower than when my husband (who weighs 2x’s more than me) does.

 

[Olivera]

Thanks!

For the refill with municipal water, should I use sequestration agent or not necessary? Which one would you recommend if so (bonus if available in Canada)

Are you doing any automatic dispensing of the liquid chlorine? Or any tips for easily dispensing small amount? Could see it getting a bit tedious bringing out the big gallon jug every time.

For borates, I gather the ta should be lower right? Currently ta at 50 ppm.

I read somewhere people use tennis balls to soak up oils/sunscreen etc, is that someone you do?

Anything else worthwhile putting in the water?

Thanks for the help again!

 

[Mdragger88]

The ta of 50 is as low as you want to go- you can add borates now if you wish.
I usually buy little bleach jugs every now & then (16 or 32 oz) at the dollar store & if they’re plain (no scent, no splashless, no fabric conditioners) i will just use that & then refill it with my higher % stuff after , if its got fru fru stuff in it i will use it for my laundry then refill with my dedicated liquid chlorine. The little jugs fit well under my patio table in the bucket i have there out of the sun.
I use a saltron mini (saltwater chlorine generator) for my stand by chlorination - it will also cover me for a quick 1 person soak but for more than that I use liquid chlorine or dichlor(if i need the cya).
Unless you think your municipal water has a problem you can likely forego sequestrant. Most municipalities must provide a water quality report that is available to the public that you may wanna check out. If an issue presents itself you can always add it then.

Sequestrant - Further Reading

www.google.com

I use a rolla chem scum bug in my hot tub - it is only in the water when I am soaking, the rest of the time it lives in the cup holder.
I mostly use it to squeeze water onto my feet outside of the tub before getting in to prevent dirt/grass from getting in (my hot tub is on my patio). But it does help with oils. One usually lasts me a year before it starts deteriorating. Tennis balls will work too but you can’t really squeeze them out. In general its best to prevent getting oils, lotions, detergents, fabric softeners, sunscreen, deodorant or hair conditioner in the tub in the first place. I usually take a shower before getting in the hot tub, not after. Then afterwards is when I will apply my lotion/self tanner or whatever. If I haven’t just showered I always remove my deodorant with a wipe & make sure everything else is clean
I have a hair up/no hair rule for the tub as well with all the teenage girls. If they wanna dunk they can get in the pool. They seriously use way too much conditioner
I use extra rinse when washing suits & no fabric softener. I usually wash all the suits about once a week. The rest of the time they just get rinsed & hung up.

 

[Olivera]

Thanks! Great idea with the swg, purchased one last night!

 

[Mdragger88]

Thanks! Great idea with the swg, purchased one last night!

I love mine! I have a small tub so I have mine plugged into a timer that comes on for 1 hour multiple times a day to keep fc steady instead of all at once. In the winter/ cooler months when we use the tub more it comes on 3 or 4 times a day in the summer when I use it less I set it to twice a day. Some folks with larger tubs don’t have this need.

 

[Olivera]

smarterspa arrived, added 5 cups of salt and showed level was good. Looks like it's producing chlorine so will see how good it is at keeping the free chlorine above 2.

I received the fine powder boric acid that was recommended (Amazon.com). Just wanted to confirm, I should add 1 pound to my 380g hot tub? How soon after adding the boric acid can I jump in the tub? From what I gather, I should let ph get above 7.5 before adding the boric acid? My TA is 30, should I increase it?

I haven't been paying attention to the cya but roughly been adding 1 tablespoon daily since I filled it 2 weeks ago. Waters been clear so decided not to dump the water for now. FC level staying between 2-5 and ph is pretty stable on the lower side at 7.2 currently (before swg kicks in now).

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Olivera]

just checked cya, it was 35.

Increased TA to 50.

surprisingly FC dropped to 1 while swg was running so added som dichlor to bring it to 3. Should I change to liquid chlorine after a soak going forward now? Hopefully swg can keep levels stable when it's idle

 

[Mdragger88]

just checked cya, it was 35.

Increased TA to 50.

surprisingly FC dropped to 1 while swg was running so added som dichlor to bring it to 3. Should I change to liquid chlorine after a soak going forward now? Hopefully swg can keep levels stable when it's idle

Yes- time to switch to liquid chlorine.
Be sure you always stay above minimum for your cya. You can’t read between the lines on the test - always round up if between. Your cya counts as 40.

Cya degrades over time in hot water so you will need to replenish it every now & then with a little dichlor. I usually need to add some every week or two. I keep my tub 104 degrees- the hotter it is the faster degradation occurs.

 

[Olivera]

thanks appreciate the help!

Where do you place the swg probe? I just have it draped over side next to the skimmer. There is enough room in the skimmer compartment but figured having chlorine directly upstream from the spa equipment is not a great idea. Also the pump doesn’t run 24/7 so would build up within that small space rather than circulate into the larger body of water.

And re the boric acid?

Thanks!

 

[Mdragger88]

I have mine hanging in the main part of the tub.
Check
PoolMath effects of adding to see how that addition of boric acid will affect your ph before adding. Let the ph rise some if necessary first. Ideally you want ph to end up in the mid 7’s after the addition. You also don’t have to add it all in one go- split it up & space it out if it will drop ph too much.
The ta of 50 is great

 

[Olivera]

thanks!

Just wanted to rave about the swg. I have it cranked to high. Was at 5 fc after >24h without added liquid chlorine, did an hour soak yesterday that dropped it to 3. Didn’t add chlorine. Checked right now, back to 5 fc. Ph slowly raised to 7.6 as expected but still haven’t had to add any acid. Will add boric acid when it reaches 7.8. To anyone that’s as lazy as me, swg is an awesome way to significantly reduce the need for manual testing and dealing with chemicals. Really impressed!

 

[Mdragger88]

The smarter spa can require a little tweaking at first due to it’s supposed ability to detect fc which may or may not jive with reality so just keep an eye on things & supplement with liquid chlorine when needed then adjust the swg settings. Don’t try to have the swg “make up” fc if you’re falling behind or close to it as nasties proliferate rapidly in a hot tub & the swg is just too slow to produce. Falling too low even one time can introduce a chlorine demand that you can’t quite kick. Also, All swg cells have a finite lifespan of how much fc they will produce- the more you demand of it the faster that lifespan will be depleted.
For this reason I mainly use mine to provide standby fc & I dose with liquid chlorine (or dichlor if needed) for most bather load conditions.

 

[Olivera]

Any tips on easy way to dose from large liquid chlorine jug?

 

[Mdragger88]

I use a plastic measuring cup for measuring amounts. I hold both over the tub incase of spills.
Also, stop off at the dollar store & get a small container of bleach to refill from your big jug.
If it’s unadulterated you can use it in the hot tub, if not use it for the laundry/cleaning and then rinse & refill with the good stuff.
Dedicated bleach containers have vented lids & also opaque to protect it from the sun as well as being already properly labeled so I try to stick to those.