Brown and gray dust on pool floor only after running pump.

[Bosox6ersfan]

Bought a home with pool, so new owner of an existing pool. All seemed well for 1st week. Got water tested, absolutely 0 alkalinity and calcium hardness was high. 1st step was to raise alkalinity levels, pool store steered me wrong and on 2nd application my water got cloudy/pump pressure shot up. Backwashed, pressure lowered, water cleared. 1 day later pressure back up. Backwashed again and pressure lowered. Finished alkalinity and calcium treatments. After all this I started getting collections of a gritty tan/gray substance on pool floor ONLY after running pump. I would vacuum it up (a tiny amount would return to pool underneath return jet but I would suck that up at end) and all is good until running pump again , same substance on floor. So I bought a self contained vacuum. That collected the materials in a mesh filter. It was like a fine gritty sand, tan and gray, some sporadic white flakes. On top of all that, I developed a small drip where pipe from skimmer goes into filter housing (suction part). Called local pool company to fix leak, he advised to take filter out and clean. I took out filter, soaked overnight in a solution from local pool store, and hosed off. Recharged DE. Then I got a real fine grayish dust, just dissipated when trying to vacuum. Figured that was DE back in pool. Took filter out again, some screw heads busted off that hold tube sheet together. Ordered new ones, replaced all screws with stainless (old ones rusted). Put everything back together, recharged DE, ran pump last night and now I have same tannish/gray dust on pool floor. I'm thinking the original stuff was some of the chemicals I added as it now is more of a dust. After reading up it seems like maybe dead algae but why only after running pump? I did not run it for 3 days while waiting for replacement screws and nothing of the such collected on pool floor. Also, some rust stains on filter finger mesh, dunno if that has anything to do with it. Tube sheet, diaphragm gasket, and fingers seem in good shape

Small drip still exists after rethreading union pipe. Just ordered a new one and going to use liquid Teflon instead of the tape.

I am going to order a testing kit from here and will start SLAM process. Will post pics when I get home and provide water tests results from local store tomorrow.

In the meantime, is there something I can start with? Was gonna put in a skimmer sock to see if that collects any of the substance I'm seeing on pool floor, then next day put one around my pool jet. Bad ideas?

 

[1poolman1]

19,000 gallon pool with a 32.5 sq. ft. filter. May want to upgrade.

 

[HermanTX]

It may be DE or debris from the filter going to the pool if this only occurs when pump is on. I am not familiar with Hayward DE filter but I have used Pentair DE filters for decades. They can be finicky to put back together to ensure all the grids seal in the top manifold and the manifold seals on the standpipe, plus there is a breather screen on top of manifold that can have small tear. So lots to consider. I will try to find the filter manual online.

Best to post pictures of the pipe that is leaking. It does not sound too bad and may be easy repair. Also show picture of your pipes leading the pump on the suction side and then the pipes exiting to the pool returns.

As you have found, be careful of pool store tests and what they suggest as remedies. They are known to steer you in wrong direction.
If you have to test at pool store until you get a proper test kit then just walk out without buying anything, with the exception of liquid chlorine or muriatic acid - both of which you can use - but you can most likely find them cheaper at Walmart or Home Depot.

 

[HermanTX]

Here is the manual for filter. It is quite different from a Pentair DE filter so not sure how to guide you other than verify that the grids are in good shape with no noticeable tears.

 

[Bosox6ersfan]

@1poolman1 If I decide to bite the bullet and start a new, what size filter for a 19000 galloon pool?

@HermanTX ...ty! I was using that same manual to order parts. I ordered the union ball pipe, that's where the small drip comes from. I'm confident I can repair the leak myself even though the pool company that came to repair that exact issue only made it worse!! At least they put in a new check valve while they were at it, cancels out debris coming into pool from filter when pump is off.

I just cleaned the filter and drained/cleaned filter housing. Everything looked to be in good shape minus the tube sheet screws. Not sure why they weren't stainless in the first place. Will post pics soon

 

[Bosox6ersfan]

Here is what ends up on pool floor after running pump. Not a lot of it, but enough to make it a pain. Sucks when you vacuum only to have a dirty pool floor again after running pump.

 

[Bosox6ersfan]

My filter setup. The drip is where I have all the gray putty. Only drips when running pump, fairly certain I can repair on my own once ordered part arrives.

 

[Bosox6ersfan]

Pics didn't upload

 

[Bosox6ersfan]

More pics

 

[Bosox6ersfan]

Last 1

 

[Bosox6ersfan]

This is the stuff I'm picking up from the pool floor after running pump. I thought originally it was DE but I don't think I could collect DE in a mesh bag. It would just turn into a cloudy 'poof.' I realize the picture in my hand looks like it has a lot of white flecks but in reality that's only about 5% of it. So stumped on 2 things, #1 why is this stuff making it thru my filter and #2 what is it?

Was considering running a temporary tube on top of ground from return side of filter directly to pool. That would rule out the underground return pipe going bad. I would think if any of my plumbing was defective I would get debris in pool even when not running pump. I have 1 skimmer in middle of pool, 1 drain in deep end, 1 return jet in shallow end.

 

[HermanTX]

This is the stuff I'm picking up from the pool floor after running pump. I thought originally it was DE but I don't think I could collect DE in a mesh bag. It would just turn into a cloudy 'poof.' I realize the picture in my hand looks like it has a lot of white flecks but in reality that's only about 5% of it. So stumped on 2 things, #1 why is this stuff making it thru my filter and #2 what is it?

Was considering running a temporary tube on top of ground from return side of filter directly to pool. That would rule out the underground return pipe going bad. I would think if any of my plumbing was defective I would get debris in pool even when not running pump. I have 1 skimmer in middle of pool, 1 drain in deep end, 1 return jet in shallow end.

That is the kind of grit that filter captures so my hunch is that there is a small tear in the filter grid that is letting this stuff out. It is sometimes hard to find it.

 

[Bosox6ersfan]

That is the kind of grit that filter captures so my hunch is that there is a small tear in the filter grid that is letting this stuff out. It is sometimes hard to find it.

Got about 60 fingers to sort thru and the plate that holds them..any tricks or just a thorough visual inspection? The fingers are pricey as well as the plate, so my goal is not to guess wrong!

 

[JamesW]

Got about 60 fingers to sort thru and the plate that holds them.

There are 120 fingers.

https://hayward-pool-assets.com/assets/documents/pools/pdf/manuals/Perflex-EC65A.pdf

 

[HermanTX]

There are 120 fingers.

https://hayward-pool-assets.com/assets/documents/pools/pdf/manuals/Perflex-EC65A.pdf

@Bosox6ersfan Good videos from James That 2nd one discusses the possible leak paths and what to check.
Good Luck.

 

[1poolman1]

@1poolman1 If I decide to bite the bullet and start a new, what size filter for a 19000 galloon pool?

@HermanTX ...ty! I was using that same manual to order parts. I ordered the union ball pipe, that's where the small drip comes from. I'm confident I can repair the leak myself even though the pool company that came to repair that exact issue only made it worse!! At least they put in a new check valve while they were at it, cancels out debris coming into pool from filter when pump is off.

I just cleaned the filter and drained/cleaned filter housing. Everything looked to be in good shape minus the tube sheet screws. Not sure why they weren't stainless in the first place. Will post pics soon

You want the largest filter you can afford. My pool is similar in size and I have 420sq. ft. cartridge filter. Don't go less than 300. A large filter needs cleaning less often, but also will allow better flow for a longer time, especially if you can upgrade to a VSP.
The original screws in your filter were stainless. An issue you have is that tab feeder. They can causexdamage to your equipment.

 

[Bosox6ersfan]

Lol! My guestimate wasn't even close. Salt on the wound James!!!

One small thing before I tear apart again..due to Hayward using non stainless steel flange bolts to hold tube sheet together I have some rust stains on a few fingers. I replaced all of the bolts with stainless. Some of the bolt heads were rusted off, thought that was gonna be my fix but apparently not.. I soaked the whole filter in a trash can with water/solution from local pool store for over 24 hours, the rust stains are still on the mesh fabric covering the fingers. Would this possibly prevent DE from adhering to mesh and allowing dirt/DE to flow thru? Regardless, would soaking in muriatic acid solution clear the rust stains? Can I use something from hardware store shelf like TLC? Bump shaft is metal with O-Rings and retainer clips, hesitant to use muriatic acid since I am under the assumption it sometimes breaks down metal.

Thanks for the vids, already watched pool kings but will definitely check out others.

 

[Bosox6ersfan]

Lol! My guestimate wasn't even close. Salt on the wound James!!!

One small thing before I tear apart again..due to Hayward using non stainless steel flange bolts to hold tube sheet together I have some rust stains on a few fingers. I replaced all of the bolts with stainless. Some of the bolt heads were rusted off, thought that was gonna be my fix but apparently not.. I soaked the whole filter in a trash can with water/solution from local pool store for over 24 hours, the rust stains are still on the mesh fabric covering the fingers. Would this possibly prevent DE from adhering to mesh and allowing dirt/DE to flow thru? Regardless, would soaking in muriatic acid solution clear the rust stains? Can I use something from hardware store shelf like TLC? Bump shaft is metal with O-Rings and retainer clips, hesitant to use muriatic acid since I am under the assumption it sometimes breaks down metal.

Thanks for the vids, already watched pool kings but will definitely check out others.

I was wrong, guess the factory screws were stainless.
@1poolman1 ..I'm not using the tablets but the tab feeder is still in my return path. Should I bypass it all together with new plumbing?

 

[1poolman1]

Lol! My guestimate wasn't even close. Salt on the wound James!!!

One small thing before I tear apart again..due to Hayward using non stainless steel flange bolts to hold tube sheet together I have some rust stains on a few fingers. I replaced all of the bolts with stainless. Some of the bolt heads were rusted off, thought that was gonna be my fix but apparently not.. I soaked the whole filter in a trash can with water/solution from local pool store for over 24 hours, the rust stains are still on the mesh fabric covering the fingers. Would this possibly prevent DE from adhering to mesh and allowing dirt/DE to flow thru? Regardless, would soaking in muriatic acid solution clear the rust stains? Can I use something from hardware store shelf like TLC? Bump shaft is metal with O-Rings and retainer clips, hesitant to use muriatic acid since I am under the assumption it sometimes breaks down metal.

Thanks for the vids, already watched pool kings but will definitely check out others.

Rust stains won't hurt anything. MA will definitely damage metal.

I was wrong, guess the factory screws were stainless.
@1poolman1 ..I'm not using the tablets but the tab feeder is still in my return path. Should I bypass it all together with new plumbing?

If it is an inline feeder, it does cause some restriction to flow. It can leak, also. Since its not used, getting it out of the system would be a good thing.