Broke my in-floor valve lid...

[Sparrow910]

Hello all! I was troubleshooting my A&A in-floor cleaning system and I broke the lid. I have ordered a new one, but can someone tell me what the hinge on the top is used for (besides breaking the lid...)? I bought new t-valves as well. My pool symptoms were weak flow out of the in-floor popups. You think new gears/valves will fix that? My only concern is that I didn't seem to be getting much flow into the intakes at the bottom of the pool. Could it be a problem with flow through the pump?

 

[chiefwej]

If you are the original pool owner, the A&A system has a lifetime warranty. The little lever on top stops the gears from tuning thus holding the system on one zone. Why anyone would use or need that feature, other than possibly a service tech is beyond me.

If you have a pool with a deep well and the drain at the bottom, there is hope that you can get the system doing an acceptable job. If it’s a play/sport pool with a relatively flat bottom, there’s little hope. But if you are the original pool owner, contact A&A. They will work with you to optimize the system. If you are not the original owner, parts are pretty expensive.

 

[KDpoolguy]

Sounds like it could be a variety of issues, and I tend to not think it’s not necessarily due to the T-valves or top but a system-wide flow issue.

• Have you cleaned filter recently?
• What’s the PSI on the filter, is it higher:lower than normal?
• Is your pump priming?
• Do you have a pressure at the A&A valve?
• How old is the system? How old are the gears and valve assembly internals?

just sold my home with an A&A in floor and installed a new valve with a zone ‘stop’ like you mentioned, but my valve was a top-feed, not a side-feed like yours. I found it handy to heat only my pool (one zone fed the spa), or to hold on a zone while I poured in chems. I was probably the fourth owner of that home and I brought the in-floor back to life, so no warranty for me. I did find that there was not good flow from the main drain due to no skimmer float assembly.
New gears and a o-ring gasket could help. How long ago was it working fine?

 

[Arizonarob]

Just getting some more eyes on this. @proavia

 

[proavia]

In addition to Kevin's questions above.....

Are you the original owner?
Is 100% return flow going to the water valve?
Skimmer, leaf vac (if installed) and pump basket clean?
When is the last time you did a complete teardown of your DE filter?
What is the condition of the DE filter grids?
When was the last time the pop-ups were replaced?

Have you inspected the lower water valve housing for wear/blow-by - the area where the t-valves seat? If water is seeping into numerous zones instead of just one zone, performance will be diminished. New t-valves may or may not help - based on the condition of the t-valve seats in the lower housing. Be sure the t-valfes are fully seating when closed.

A new gearset won't fix a flow issue. The gearset just facilitates moving from one zone to another.

Post pictures of you equipment pad, including all valves and the infloor water valve.

 

[beez74]

That lever shuts off flow.....the position of the lid determines amount of flow to the heads as well...inside the lid there are tic marks to set flow.

 

[Sparrow910]

Ok lots of excellent questions. I already ordered new gears and lid, so I'm going to install that and go from there.
Most of the system is 12 years old (I'm 2nd owner). I got a new pump last year after it failed, and I recently installed a new pressure gauge and timer after those failed. When I dismantled the previous gears/t-valves I did notice some wear in the plastic (hoping that is my main issue). I didn't notice any issues at the bottom of the dish. The rest of the system stays pretty clean. I have 3 baskets that I keep clean, and I did a heavy clean on the cartridge filters a few months ago (took it apart yesterday just to make sure there wasn't debris blocking anything). My pressure did seem to climb a bit in the past few weeks, but since I had a new pressure gauge, I don't know what an abnormal reading is yet. I usually prime the pump (even though it is self priming) but I did notice a lack of flow into the pump as I was shutting the system down when the lid started spewing. Made me nervous, but I'll fix one thing at a time and maybe it'll all be ok.
I'll get those new components installed next week and if that doesn't fix the problem, I'll post some pictures and see if you experts can save the day. Thanks!

 

[Sparrow910]

Ok experts, I thought I had it all fixed, but no such luck. Here is what I'm currently seeing. The in-floor pop-ups only pop up about half way and they don't rotate. My intake in the deep end of the pool is not intaking any water. I've closed and opened valves to try to knock it loose, but it didn't seem to have an effect. I've attached some pictures of my setup. Please help!
Chris

 

[proavia]

A wider pic of your equipmemt may help.

How does return water get to you infloor water valve? I'm not familiar with Jandy 2-way valves (mine are all 3-way) - are the quik-skim and return valves open or closed? On the 3-way Jandy valve, OFF points to the port that is closed - if the 2-way Jandy is the same, your return and quik-skim are wide open. If you have a separate line to the infloor, the returns should be closed and the quik-skim slightly open - otherwise, you don't have enough flow to the infloor.

 

[chiefwej]

When cleaning with the infloor, it will work best with all the other returns closed, so that all water flows through the infloor system. And you should draw only from the main drain. You have the skimmer open. Also the position of the lid you replaced controls the rotation speed of the gears and valves through the zones. It may require some fine tuning.

 

[beez74]

Like mentioned above you have return and skim full open......did you replace that in-floor lid???? it has notches that adjust the flow inside the lip make sure to check that. you may already know this but the head rotate per cycle but without enough pressure I don't think they will complete a cycle. side note after some research I was told to keep my skimmer/main drain valve way more open on the main drain because the quick skim makes up for it as far as pulling debris to the skimmer and a little suction will pull it thru

 

[Sparrow910]

I guess that makes sense, you want max pressure through the main drain to the in-floors. But the system operated with the settings in the picture for 2 years without problem. Yes I replaced the broken lid with a new one. There seems to be about 10 degrees of wiggle left/right. Is that the adjustment I use to fine tune the amount of flow to the in-floors? I am getting zero section into the deep end intake. I have labeled a skimmer and quick skim. Can anyone tell me the difference between those 2 pipes?

 

[beez74]

skimmer....suction from the bottom of the skim bowl.......quickskim pushes water thru the bottom of skimmer into the pool creating some vortex type of thing. took me a while to figure that out to...you need skim but only to suck debris out of the skim bowl no to pull from the surface of the pool like traditionally

 

[proavia]

You are not supplying pressure thru the main drains to the infloor cleaning heads. The main drains (and skimmer) provide water to the pump (suction side). After the pump the water goes to the filter and is returned to the pool via returns, infloor, etc - based on the return side valve settings.

You do want the skimmer open on the suction side or you will not get surface skimming. You also want the main drains open to capture dirt/debris from the bottom that the infloor pushes toward it. You need to find a balance between the main drain and skimmer suction.... My sweet spot is about 40% main drain and 60% skimmer. Your system has a venturi skimmer - quik-skim...
QuikSkim Venturi Powered – A&A Manufacturing
Adjusting the quik-skim valve (on the return side) provides some return water to the skimmer and helps to create a venturi effect to aid in skimming. In essense, this allows the skimmer to be more effective at any given skimmer suction setting. So with the quik-skim valve open (or partially open) it will skim better than with the quik-skim valve fully closed.

How does the return water get to the infloor water valve? Show us an overall pic of your equipment.

 

[Sparrow910]

You are not supplying pressure thru the main drains to the infloor cleaning heads. The main drains (and skimmer) provide water to the pump (suction side). After the pump the water goes to the filter and is returned to the pool via returns, infloor, etc - based on the return side valve settings.

You do want the skimmer open on the suction side or you will not get surface skimming. You also want the main drains open to capture dirt/debris from the bottom that the infloor pushes toward it. You need to find a balance between the main drain and skimmer suction.... My sweet spot is about 40% main drain and 60% skimmer. Your system has a venturi skimmer - quik-skim...
QuikSkim Venturi Powered – A&A Manufacturing
Adjusting the quik-skim valve (on the return side) provides some return water to the skimmer and helps to create a venturi effect to aid in skimming. In essense, this allows the skimmer to be more effective at any given skimmer suction setting. So with the quik-skim valve open (or partially open) it will skim better than with the quik-skim valve fully closed.

How does the return water get to the infloor water valve? Show us an overall pic of your equipment.

Thank you that explanation helps. The 4th image(9564) shows all the equipment (besides the cartridge filter which is just off the right. The 6 valve A&A dish is 5 yards away. I don't have a pipe near the pump/filter that specifically shows it goes to the in-floor. My guess is the one labeled "returns" goes there, but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[proavia]

If "returns" is supplying the infloor, turn the quik-skim fully off and see if the infloor heads fully extend - as a test.

You probably don't need the quik-skim fully open - if having it fully off extends the infloor heads fully, try setting the quik-skim about 25% (or less) open and see if infloor works and if you are getting sufficient skimmer action. Again, this will require testing and tweaking on your part to find the best balance.

If/when you decide to replace the pool pump, consider a VS pump instead of that single speed. What is the HP of the motor on the main pump?

 

[Sparrow910]

If "returns" is supplying the infloor, turn the quik-skim fully off and see if the infloor heads fully extend - as a test.

You probably don't need the quik-skim fully open - if having it fully off extends the infloor heads fully, try setting the quik-skim about 25% (or less) open and see if infloor works and if you are getting sufficient skimmer action. Again, this will require testing and tweaking on your part to find the best balance.

If/when you decide to replace the pool pump, consider a VS pump instead of that single speed. What is the HP of the motor on the main pump?

ok cool, ill do some more trouble shooting tomorrow and let you know how it goes. I don't know if I can upload videos, but if I can i'll take a video so I can show you all the equipment in a logical flow. Thanks for your help!

 

[Sparrow910]

Hi experts. I troubleshot things a bit more. I turned the quick-skim, aerator, and dek-chlor off to maximize flow to the in-floor cleaning system. They still aren't popping up the entire way or rotating. I played with the main/skimmer valve. With skimmer off, I can visually see water flow into the leaf-vac, pump and into the in-floor cleaning dish, but when I swim down to the drain in the deep end, I don't feel any pull into either drain. Small light debris can float by the drain without being sucked in. It must be flowing (because where else could the water be coming from) but it seems weak. When I moved the valve from main only, to main & skimmer the flow through the leaf-vac and pump visually increased significantly. I wasn't able to upload any videos, but here is a wider angle of my equipment. In the picture I have the main drain off, so the pump is only pulling water through the skimmer. The in-floors didn't pop up all the way with that set either. Any advice?

 

[proavia]

1. What is the HP of the main pump?
2. How many pop-up heads on each zone?
3. What is you filter pressure when the filter is clean?
4. What is the filter pressure now?
5. Are there any additional return lines in the pool besides the infloor, quik-skim, aerator and dek-chlor? You would see 2 maybe 3 returns about a foot or so below the water line.
6. If you open all return valves and then turn the one marked "returns" toward off, does water flow reduce to the infloor?

Setting the suction valve to draw 50/50 should give the least restrictive flow. When on full main drain, you should not feel any appreciable suction at the main drains. The 2 drains are tied into a single line under the gunite that is plumbed back to the pad.

Getting the pop-ups to fully extend takes quite a bit of flow rate & pressure. My system is also an A&A and they spec'd it with a 2 HP Hawyard super pump. I have 3 high flow pop-ups per zone (except zone one which has 4 pop-ups - 1 low flow and 3 high flow). If you aren't getting enough flow and velocity the heads won't pop up fully and won't rotate either.

Since you are the second owner, you don't know if the pump motor is matched to the impeller either. We may need to get a couple of our pump experts involved if you wish to delve into that.

 

[Sparrow910]

HP of main pump is labeled as 1 and 1.8 depending on where I look (pictures attached). I have a total of 22 pop-up heads on a 6 valve system, so 3-4 per zone. I opened up the A&A valve dish again and fiddled with the t vavles just to make sure they werent damaged. They all seem fine. I cleaned the cartridge filters really good today and I am showing 10psi (I don't have a log of good/bad since I only recently replaced the broken pressure gauge). The only returns in the pool that I see are the infloor, aerator, quick-skim, dek-chlor, and my autofill. Yes if I open the quickskim, aerator, dekchlor and turn off the returns, there is no flow to the infloor dish.