Boric acid Time?

[Derb22]

Hello,
i am new to the community and new to pool ownership. I have recently converted over to a salt pool.
Here are my current readings.
FC - 6.5
Ph 7.4
Ta - 75
Cya 45
CH - 350
Salt 3600. (3000-4000 range per SWG Manual)

Read through plenty of threads am on board with adding boric acid and understand I am not reducing my acid demand just hopefully getting a more stable pool. I have ordered 65 LBS of Boric Acid from Dan’s.
Should I try and further lower TA before I pour it in or is this ok? What would the benefit be to a lower TA?

Love the forum. Have already gone from once a week pool company down to once a month. Have purchased the Taylor 2006 rest kit and am now very comfortable drop testing my own water. Hopefully soon will feel comfortable enough to let them go completely. ThnKs for all the great info!

 

[pooldv]

Welcome to TFP!

The benefit of lowering your ta before adding borates is that it is much easier to lower it now. If your pH still rises quickly after lowering it then your TA needs to be lower. I would expect you want your TA down around 60.

 

[Parabolic]

Any concerns about adding boric acid with higher calcium level? Most of my pools are around 350, one is as high as 520(fairly new pool, not of my doing). It is hard to talk people into draining them just to reduce calcium level when the pool looks great as it is.

 

[Derb22]

Ta level seems stuck.

Hi,
I am trying to get the chemistry ready to add Boric Acid to the pool.( 65 lbs.) I have lowered the Ph this week and it is now around 7.0 - 7.2. However I cannot seem to get a lower reading for TA than 70 -75. Today it was 70 (Taylor K-2006) question on the test for TA. AT 60 the color changes from green to purple then 7th drop turns red. Am I closer to 65 and is this good or should I get it to 60. ( yes I lean impatient on occasion, trying to learn to adjust pool in baby steps).

Any suggestions to get it down to 60? I understand it is important to get it to the lower end before I add the Boric Acid as it is suggested here it is very hard to lower after.

Ca - 350
CYA - 70
FC - 5.5
salt 3400

 

[ping]

Re: Ta level seems stuck.

What does the 8th drop do to the color? Always add more drops until the color change stops and then subtract one drop from the result. I have a feeling that the 8th drop will cause yours to turn a brighter shade of red and then the 9th drop will not change the color. If this is the case then the TA would be 80.

Are you aerating the pool once you lower the pH to 7.0?

 

[Derb22]

Re: Ta level seems stuck.

I would guess you are closer to correct. I will try that next test. I am using my SWG for aeration.
Raising ph does not seem to be an issue.
shouldnt a Ph of 7.0 lower the TA. Does aeration help lower TA as well?

 

[Casey]

Re: Ta level seems stuck.

You lower pH with MA and aerate to lower TA which raises pH in the process.

 

[Derb22]

Re: Ta level seems stuck.

Well that helps explain it. Somehow I thought the MA lowered the TA.
I’m assuming since the TA hasn’t really moved This week I will need to come up with a better way for aeration than just the SWG. I have an air compressor I can drop the hose into the deep in and run.hopefully that will lower the TA. PH is right at 7.0 now.

 

[ping]

Re: Ta level seems stuck.

You use acid to lower the pH and TA. You then aerate the pool which will raise the pH and leave the TA alone. The SWG will not aerate the pool very fast and it will be a slow process to do it that way.

 

[Derb22]

Re: Ta level seems stuck.

This afternoon at 2:00 PM edt. I rechecked my water. Now PH of 7.0 and TA of 70. I have added my portable air tank hose into the pool to create some more aeration. I’m assuming the Ph will rise without a equal rise in TA and then I add more MA until back down to 7.0 etc etc. until I get to 60 TA.
Just curious, I haven’t found this on a forum yet but why the lower recommended TA rate of 60 - 80 for Salt pools?

 

[ping]

Re: Ta level seems stuck.

Having a lower TA helps to prevent the pH from rising or slows the rate of pH rise down. Since you don't add an acidic form of chlorine using a SWG, the TA can be kept in that range without worry of crashing the pH.

 

[Derb22]

Re: Ta level seems stuck.

I’m assuming you meant “having a lower TA”

 

[Derb22]

Re: Ta level seems stuck.

Last question I hope. When I get my TA to 60, I assume at that point my ph will be around 7.0. Can I add the Boric Acid at that time or wait until Ph rises a bit?

 

[Derb22]

Re: Ta level seems stuck.

Now After learning the one drop more testing procedure I am fairly sure my TA was around 80-90 when I started this process. Last night after nearly 8 hours of air compressor aeration and utilizing the tried and true black lab and son method of splash aeration the PH was back up to 7.2.
I added MA in the correct dosage to lower it back to 7.0. This morning rechecked the water and sitting at 7.0 PH and a true TA of 70. I read somewhere in the long forum on TA and borates that catching it at 7.2 and adding MA then is quicker to lower TA than waiting for 7.6 or so and putting a bunch of MA in. Did I read that correctly? It seems I am on the right path to lower TA TO THE GOAL OF 60. a long process but hoping it will be worth it once I add the Boric Acid.

 

[tim5055]

Re: Ta level seems stuck.

Deb,

I do want to point out one thing...

Borates are toxic to dogs. From my reading they should be safe for dogs in the pool up to about 50ppm for the dogs, but to be honest I NEVER want something in my water that I need to worry about. If your dog swims a lot they are naturally going to drink pool water, so keep the level low in your pool.

As borates are optional, it is an option I never went with and for full disclosure I try to make sure dog owners make an informed decision before using them.

 

[Derb22]

Re: Ta level seems stuck.

Tim,
thanks for the info. I read that as well and will make sure I am between 30-50 and not above. We have made a family decision this year to not let him in the pool but on special occasions. Mainly because of the 70 lbs of black hair he leaves all over the pool (took me 30 minutes last night to net it all up afterward) but secondary the addition of borates. I did read in-depth the borates chemistry from chem geek and feel pretty safe as he is mostly an indoor dog.

All of this pre-supposes I EVER get the TA to 60. ( thinking about adding my leaf blower to the aeration cycle and maybe my shop vac !!!!!
Thanks again! Love all the great info and great advice here.

 

[Derb22]

Re: Ta level seems stuck.

As I said I’m impatient. Blower in shallow end, air compressor in deep end. COME ON PH. RISE BABY RISE.
I think I’m enjoying this way way too much!!!

 

[Derb22]

Re: Ta level seems stuck.

I’m just about there. TA is 60 - 65 PH back down to 7.0 one last time. I need to know once I get the TA DOWN to 60 can I add the Boric Acid then (tonight) or do I wait for Ph to rise on its own? Aerate to get it higher and wait for what PH?
FC is around 6.5. Cya is at 70.
Need some final guidance.
THANKS!!!

 

[Derb22]

Original thread on lowering TA and adding in the deep end answered

I’m just about there. TA is 60 - 65 PH now taking PH back down to 7.0 one last time. I need to know once I get the TA DOWN to 60 can I add the Boric Acid then (tonight) or do I wait for Ph to rise on its own? Aerate to get it higher and wait for what PH?
FC is around 6.5. Cya is at 70.
Need some final guidance.
THANKS!!!

 

[Texas Splash]

Re: Original thread on lowering TA and adding in the deep end answered

Deb, not withstanding your original question here about adding the BA tonight, but just to clarify something I didn't see clearly discussed in any of your previous threads about BA treatment ... so here it goes ..... your pool seems pretty straight-forward without much fuss or additions other than an SWG. While Borates are used to help keep the pH more stable, I usually think of pools with LOTS of aeration action like spas, large spillovers, bubblers, fountains, etc., just a constant amount of activity that drives-up the pH fast. I don't see that in your pool. So I'm curious as to what made you focus on borates? With your TA already down to the 60-70 range, does the pH and TA remain stable for a while without borates, or does your pool seem to experience a high surge in pH rise? Is there a history of such activity? Curious minds (at least mine) would like to know.

I ask for my own curiosity, and owners across the country chose to use borates at any time as they wish, but I just had to ask since I didn't see it specifically noted before.