Borates over 200ppm

Your CCC method of pool care is quite casual......I am happy you are able to keep your pool crystal clear with your methods.

With solid science behind us and thousands of anecdotal pools, TFP would never encourage anyone to manage their pools the way you do.

Again, I am happy that your methods work for you. Time and time again, however, they DO NOT work for others so we would never suggest to anyone to attempt your methods.
 
Your CCC method of pool care is quite casual......I am happy you are able to keep your pool crystal clear with your methods.

With solid science behind us and thousands of anecdotal pools, TFP would never encourage anyone to manage their pools the way you do.

Again, I am happy that your methods work for you. Time and time again, however, they DO NOT work for others so we would never suggest to anyone to attempt your methods.

Seriously not attempting to undermine what you folks have established here for newbies on pool maintenance. I have 20+yrs dealing with cooling towers and boiler chemistry in power plants where long term problems result in serious ramifications for boilers and condensers similar to most folks heaters being eaten up

Understanding if each pool has more/less sun, trees, full sun, shade should be taken into account before barrages of test kit mandating/bashing pool stores testing might be considered?
I'm buying a test kit from your store and plan on posting results from a cheaper kit if that's OK?
 
basod, one of the great things about the TFP method is that you can embrace as much of it or as little as you want. The big thing we are all about is understanding the chemistry of your pool, and that is something you seem to have a fair grasp on, we are not about chlorinating with this or that, or using any one thing or another. When I came here about 5 years ago I had many years of experience managing my pool and for the most part I was happy with it, however I must say that since embracing things taught here including more careful management of CYA/FC ratios my water looks and feels better than it ever did when I like you were using test strips and adding a little of this and little of that.

Ike
 
basod, one of the great things about the TFP method is that you can embrace as much of it or as little as you want. The big thing we are all about is understanding the chemistry of your pool, and that is something you seem to have a fair grasp on, we are not about chlorinating with this or that, or using any one thing or another. When I came here about 5 years ago I had many years of experience managing my pool and for the most part I was happy with it, however I must say that since embracing things taught here including more careful management of CYA/FC ratios my water looks and feels better than it ever did when I like you were using test strips and adding a little of this and little of that.

Ike
Ike meant to reply about your camping experience on Cheaha - yes things change here quickly on the mountain, if you ever want to head back this way I can lead you to all the beautiful waterfalls just come late spring.. AL is the "armpit" of the south and I'd like to keep it that way to the outside world as a transplanted Northerner:cool:

As far as managing my pool I'm going to try bleach and see how consumption rates go after I get the new test kit and compare them side by side
 
If you maintain the same CYA level as you do today, you shouldn't see any consumption differences based on the source of chlorine. The Re-fresh shock you use is just Cal-Hypo where for every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) it also increases Calcium Hardness (CH) by at least 7 ppm. If you start off with low CH fill water, then using Cal-Hypo is a reasonable alternative to using chlorinating liquid or bleach especially in your low FC per day situation due to the lack of sunlight on the pool. So long as your CH doesn't get too high, which source of chlorine you use is mostly a matter of cost.

However, there is no reason to have an algae problem and indicates you didn't maintain an FC level appropriate for your CYA level and you didn't need to use algaecide to resolve it. At least you have a vinyl pool because copper can stain pool surfaces, especially plaster.
 
Seriously not attempting to undermine what you folks have established here for newbies on pool maintenance. I have 20+yrs dealing with cooling towers and boiler chemistry in power plants where long term problems result in serious ramifications for boilers and condensers similar to most folks heaters being eaten up

Understanding if each pool has more/less sun, trees, full sun, shade should be taken into account before barrages of test kit mandating/bashing pool stores testing might be considered?
I'm buying a test kit from your store and plan on posting results from a cheaper kit if that's OK?

Regarding "most folks heaters being eaten up", can you explain why you believe that to be the case? We have over 80,000 members here, nearly half a million unique visitors per month during peak swim season, and we have not seen any rash of heaters being eaten up. In those few cases where there were problems reported by new members, they were all attributable to low pH, usually by using Trichlor pucks and not paying attention to the pH or TA or using Trichlor pucks in the skimmer without constant circulation (there was also an unusual case with high chlrorine and salt levels and no CYA). There are numerous members who have little or no CH in their water for their vinyl pools and have had no reported problems regarding copper heat exchangers. The idea of having calcium carbonate saturation protect metal corrosion is controversial and difficult to achieve in changing water flow conditions (see this discussion at the Corrosion Doctors site, for example).

Calcium carbonate is needed to protect plaster surfaces (and grout in between tile) but for metal corrosion it is pH that is the most important factor most easily controlled in swimming pools since other factors such as the amount of dissolved oxygen are not readily controllable. Metal corrosion is also seen more in pools that use inferior materials especially for the type of pool water such as the higher salt levels found in saltwater chlorine generator pools. For such pools the use of cupro-nickel or titanium heat exchangers is better and of course higher-quality stainless steel should be used. If there is aluminum or lower quality SS exposed to the water, then one can use a sacrificial zinc anode buried in moist soil and connected to the bonding wire to help mitigate corrosion.

As for test strips, see this post comparing those to drop-based test strips. Some tests are better than others, but the CH test typically fails at higher concentrations (most test strips only measure Total Hardness anyway, not Calcium Hardness) and the CYA test is often not very precise. Because of the importance of the FC/CYA ratio, getting a more accurate FC an CYA reading is important and there is no way that one could do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test using test strips since their resolution is too low and they do not handle measuring high FC during a SLAM.
 
Seriously not attempting to undermine what you folks have established here for newbies on pool maintenance. I have 20+yrs dealing with cooling towers and boiler chemistry in power plants where long term problems result in serious ramifications for boilers and condensers similar to most folks heaters being eaten up

Understanding if each pool has more/less sun, trees, full sun, shade should be taken into account before barrages of test kit mandating/bashing pool stores testing might be considered?
I'm buying a test kit from your store and plan on posting results from a cheaper kit if that's OK?

I'm right there with you, minus three years. Multiple facility types and situations. When I first came here, I liked the no nonsense/common sense, simple approach. I knew from my background it would work, no question. Not every store is terrible, but the large majority of chain stores are. The few times I did go in them, I was appalled at how little many of these people knew about the basics of water chemistry, and found that very frustrating. After years of being on here, its even more appalling to see what happens to people dealing with services and stores. Some of us have been burned badly trying to help someone with store numbers even on simple things like FC levels until their own kit arrives. So, we aren't on a mission to bash and trash, we've just seen so much misinformation and near disaster that we are hardened. Also, there are a lot of myths perpetrated by the Pool industry, and its often outright embarrassing to listen too when you have a treatment background in other water. One of the silliest of those is the Acid column myth. Just an example, but these things also add to our frustration with Pool industry people in general.

You'll love the kit I'm betting money. I could easily do without one with what I have, and have access too minus the High range FC kit. No use for that in our arena, but it's a fabulous tool for pool testing. I use manual bleach additions, MA, and I add Cya once in a great while, but that's it. I am usually a testing maniac because I am very picky and have a tough situation with extremely hard, and very high makeup TA. It's truly the easiest thing I could ever imagine treating a pool this way, and there is never a problem. Honestly, its pretty boring most of the time. I wind up tweaking things just to keep it interesting, but I enjoy it because it can be kinda fun. Stick around, and see what happens here this summer with people, and you'll be amazed, I almost guarantee it.
 
@chem geek I wasn't saying heaters are getting eaten up in pools - more relaying where my industry experience brings me from.

@ Patrick_B After reading through some of threads it is quite apparent that folks have good reason to distrust pool store analysis.
As far as the SLAM process I was shocked(pun intended) at the amount of bleach & money some folks are going through.
Reading the instructions it does state to vacuum and brush - large amounts of chlorine are consumed by organic debris(leaves, pine straw, dead worms etc.) The vacuuming portion of the process should probably have an emphasis even if someone is blindly vacuuming.
The process of maintaining high FC is exactly what I do at opening, after vacuuming and back flushing.

I guess we can consider this thread resolved. When the kit gets here I'll start a new thread, should have some bleach consumption data as well
 
That will be perfect. If all these folks could get their hands on 12.5 it would be a good deal better. But it's either that, or dry chlorine with big side effects. Look forward to seeing your new thread. I'll be on the lookout for it. :goodjob:
 
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.