Bonding and Grounding

[whataclown]

Hi. I’ve been getting tons of helpful info here, but now it’s time to ask my own questions. Building inground polymer wall pool w/ vinyl liner. Want to make sure light and niche are properly hooked up. Seems electricians even become confused about code on this. Anyway, I have Hayward plastic niche and 12v Hayward LED light. Actually it says 14v on the light itself. Using pvc conduit and planning on running to pool junction box then to transformer. My transformer is Intermatic PX300. My understanding is to bond outside lug on niche to the bonding grid around pool.
The lug on the inside is where I’ve come across several differing opinions with the low voltage lighting. Should I run insulated copper wire from this lug to ground bar in jbox? If so, Does anything else get connected to the grounding lug inside the jbox? Also, What size breaker should I use with this setup? Thanks for any help!

 

[whataclown]

Anyone? Should I hook the inside light niche lug to junction box ground bar? I guess the ground bar will also have ground from
Incoming power also connected to it. It seems this will link grounding and bonding together.? Is this ok?

 

[coolviper777]

Anyone? Should I hook the inside light niche lug to junction box ground bar? I guess the ground bar will also have ground from
Incoming power also connected to it. It seems this will link grounding and bonding together.? Is this ok?

Curious as to what you did. As I understand it, your pool bonding shouldn't be be grounded in your pool, or within a few feet of the pool area. The bond will typically get grounded when it's connected to your pump and heating equipment, as those items are grounded as well as bonded.

I don't think you want to merge the ground and bond in the in pool light.

 

[BMerrill]

A plastic nitch is not bonded. The junction box, transformer, and electrical enclosures are NOT bonded either. The transformer is GROUNDED only on the 120VAC side. Bonding is different than grounding and should not be interconnected.

 

[whataclown]

I’ve done a lot of reading on this matter and read the code on it. However there is quite a bit to be interpreted and I feel like most don’t even understand it (even some electricians that don’t deal with pools regularly). I’m located in US but I’ve read that that Canada has some differences. Anyway, my main question concerns keeping the grounds completely separate of bonding. My pool lights are 12v and the niche is bonded to the copper wire that runs around pool connecting to rebar, coping, ladder, and pump motor housing. The light has insulated ground wire connected to grounding block inside pool jbox that also has ground coming from 12v transformer (which is grounded back to breaker). The Jbox has a bonding lug that sticks out from the bottom. But that bonding lug is connected to the grounding block. Seems to me you would not want those to be able pass current..?? And also seems pump motor housing bond and motor ground could also pass current.? If there was a ground fault couldn’t it potentially send current through the bonding system? This has been something that has confused me and I’m just trying to talk with someone knowledgeable about this. Thanks

 

[whataclown]

A plastic nitch is not bonded. The junction box, transformer, and electrical enclosures are NOT bonded either. The transformer is GROUNDED only on the 120VAC side. Bonding is different than grounding and should not be interconnected.

Hi and thanks for the reply but I feel like the light niche definitely gets bonded as they have a metal plate inside of them and a lug on the outside for this very reason

 

[JamesW]

They are interconnected and there is nothing you can do about it.

The connection is not intentional, but it exists because of all of the equipment that is bonded and grounded.

 

[JamesW]

A plastic niche is not bonded.

The niche is bonded.

The niche is required to be grounded unless the light is a low voltage light not requiring grounding.

The junction box, transformer, and electrical enclosures are NOT bonded either.

They are usually bonded.

Bonding is different than grounding and should not be interconnected.

They are usually interconnected.

Hi and thanks for the reply but I feel like the light niche definitely gets bonded as they have a metal plate inside of them and a lug on the outside for this very reason

Correct.

 

[JamesW]

An optional external bonding lug is provided.

https://dtrermj9469s.cloudfront.net/userfiles/images/inriver/original/125876_pjb2175-pjb4174%20instructions.pdf

 

[hexabc]

I’ve done a lot of reading on this matter and read the code on it. However there is quite a bit to be interpreted and I feel like most don’t even understand it (even some electricians that don’t deal with pools regularly). I’m located in US but I’ve read that that Canada has some differences. Anyway, my main question concerns keeping the grounds completely separate of bonding. My pool lights are 12v and the niche is bonded to the copper wire that runs around pool connecting to rebar, coping, ladder, and pump motor housing. The light has insulated ground wire connected to grounding block inside pool jbox that also has ground coming from 12v transformer (which is grounded back to breaker). The Jbox has a bonding lug that sticks out from the bottom. But that bonding lug is connected to the grounding block. Seems to me you would not want those to be able pass current..?? And also seems pump motor housing bond and motor ground could also pass current.? If there was a ground fault couldn’t it potentially send current through the bonding system? This has been something that has confused me and I’m just trying to talk with someone knowledgeable about this. Thanks

Bonding is about equalizing the electric potential, so that a person standing in the pool, or on a wet deck, cannot reach any object under a different potential. Even if there is ground fault and part of the current returns to the main panel via the ground wire, all parts of the system within reach of the person are still at the same potential simply because they are electrically interconnected.

 

[whataclown]

They are interconnected and there is nothing you can do about it.

The connection is not intentional, but it exists because of all of the equipment that is bonded and grounded.

Thanks for the reply… this is what I thought was the case. I find it odd that this is how it is. I understand the concept behind the two things (bonding/grounding)

 

[TKpoolOH]

Listen to @JamesW I just built my pool, learned more about electrical wiring than I ever wanted to know, and @JamesW is always spot on with his electrical advice!