Autofill questions

[proavia]

OK, that isn't going to work in my Poolmiser sump. Looking at this video you shared in a different thread, it looks like that seal expects to sit inside a riser/boss which does not exist in my Poolmiser sump. I just have a threaded hole in the bottom of the sump to accept the fill valve threads, there's nowhere for me to install this restrictor seal. The Poomiser instructions do not call for any such restrictor seal, either.

I did confirm that turning down the hose spigot to a trickle does solve the issue (confirming that high fill rate is root cause), but that seems to create a bunch of noise in the house so that's not a long term solution.

I think I will have to resort to buying to the Poolmiser specific fill valve, I do notice the bottom of the fill valve is a slightly different design than what I have, so I wonder if this has some form of built-in restriction. The old fill valve also has the slightly different design, which has me thinking that might have been an original Poolmiser part with a Kohler replacement cap on it (instead of being a Kohler part altogether).

Try reusing the original PoolMiser valve base as @Dirk and @1poolman1 suggest.

Barring that, for the difference in price between the PoolMiser valve and a standard Fluidmaster, I'd fabricate some type of restrictor. Since the valve has to screw into the threaded hole, I suspect a washer would fit that hole as well.

Here is confirmation that the original PoolMiser valve has a pressure reducer built into the lower valve base to reduce/eliminate the water hammer you experienced.

Step-by-step instructions on installing the valve — POOLMISER

www.poolmiser.com

 

[Dirk]

Try reusing the original PoolMiser valve base as @Dirk and @1poolman1 suggest.

Barring that, for the difference in price between the PoolMiser valve and a standard Fluidmaster, I'd fabricate some type of restrictor. Since the valve has to screw into the threaded hole, I suspect a washer would fit that hole as well.

Here is confirmation that the original PoolMiser valve has a pressure reducer built into the lower valve base to reduce/eliminate the water hammer you experienced.

Step-by-step instructions on installing the valve — POOLMISER

www.poolmiser.com

Thanks Gene! What a great video. I wish I had found that when I needed it! I could have sworn I scoured every page of their site. So the screen I was looking at is just a filter, the pressure reducer is farther up. I'll definitely leave that base installed as is and just change out the top half.

Interesting about the toilet valve thread size. I had known that, but had to learn that the hard way on a different plumbing task. Such an odd thing to have to deal with. I don't think he mentioned: those threads are not tapered, so you don't use any thread seal on them, or teflon tape. You have to use that rubber washer to get the seal.

PoolMiser tip: if you you want to maximize the benefits of rain filling your pool (no chemicals, no CH, and free!), get yourself a 1" PVC coupler. That will fit right onto the overflow pipe and extend it higher a couple inches. Why, you ask? I don't get much rain here, so when rain is in the forecast, I'll extend my PoolMiser's overflow tube, which will trap a couple extra inches of fresh-fresh water in my pool. After it rains, and the pump has mixed in the fresh water really well, I'll remove the coupler and let the pool level return to normal. Lather, rinse, repeat. This in effect is a miniature water exchange that helps purge my pool water of CH and excess salt. I lose a little CYA, too, but I do anyway during the year, so no big deal.

Come spring, I balance the salt and CYA and enjoy a little less CH. It's not a big difference, but every bit helps where I live with our hard water.

 

[wireform]

Better would be in order to keep the free water is to drain some before a rain event and keep the full benefit in your pool.

 

[Dirk]

Better would be in order to keep the free water is to drain some before a rain event and keep the full benefit in your pool.

Yes, that would make for a better exchange, and I tried that a few times, but the local weather reports are inaccurate enough that I ended up either emptying the pool too much or too little. Too much (which would mean having to refill with high CH city water) really punches a hole in the strategy. By adding the coupler it doesn't matter if it rains or not. And even if it rains way more than expected, it'll just spill off into the coupler atop the overflow pipe (but that's still not wasted fresh water, see below). With the coupler I don't have to take the time to drain the pool, and I don't have to worry about starving the pump or overflowing the pool.

Truth be told, the PoolMiser does some of this exchange without any effort on my part at all. As the pool fills with fresh-water rain, most of that fresh water floats on the surface for a while (saltwater is heavier than fresh). If it rains enough to spill into the overflow pipe, the PoolMiser is actually taking water from about 2' below the surface: mostly the CH/salt laden water. The PoolMiser's overflow pipe connects to the pool through an equalizer tube, so it doesn't drain that fresh-water goodness off the surface like a typical hole-in-the-tile overflow system would.

I don't track all the chemistry to really know how much if any these actions actually reduce CH. It's theoretical, but somewhat sound.

I wrote all this up somewhere. I had even experimented with diverting roof runoff into the pool, to further collect fresh water. Even with a light rain I'd get a good amount of water. That water I did test and found it had CH in it. I think it was coming from my concrete roof tiles. I only did that a couple times, until I thought through what other nasties I was washing into my pool!



If you're thinking how nuts all this is, just wait until I retire and have even more free time on my hands!!

 

[proavia]

If you're thinking how nuts all this is, just wait until I retire and have even more free time on my hands!!

 

[ramblinwreck001]

@proavia

Here is confirmation that the original PoolMiser valve has a pressure reducer built into the lower valve base to reduce/eliminate the water hammer you experienced.

THANK YOU! This confirms the issue 100% and explains everything I've seen and experienced trying to get my autofill working.

For posterity, here's the native YT link to the video in case that manufacturer site were to go down in the future (it's looking like it's been on its last legs for a while ):

How To Install Poolmiser Valve​

And here is the key quote from that video for any future Poolmiser user ending up here:

The valve we sell with our pool miser has a pressure reducer built into it, the valve you buy at the hardware store is not going to have that. […] This pressure reducer lowers the pressure […] and assures that you’re not going to get water hammer when the water returns on and off and on and off. Sometimes the equalizer line is slow […] the valve will turn on it will fill up the tank but it won’t equalize to the pool quickly enough, so it will turn off and then on and off and that’s called water hammer. And this pressure reducer diminishes the possibility of water hammer happening.

That explains exactly what I encountered. Had I known this I wouldn't have wasted $15 on the generic Fluidmaster fill valve. In this specific case, there is meaningful difference between the generic toilet version and the pool-specific product. I'm just going to order the Poolmiser part. The money I thought I was saving was absolutely not worth all the hours of my time I spent futzing with my Fluidmaster trying to get it to work properly..

Also:

Try reusing the original PoolMiser valve base as @Dirk and @1poolman1 suggest.

I did consider that, but I know there are some seals connecting the base to the upper part of the fill valve, and I don't know how old that base part is for me (20 year old pool is new to me as a result of a recent move), so I'm just going to buy the replacement valve from Poolmiser. It's not that expensive in the grand scheme of pool expenses. I see it under $30 in a few places online.

 

[proavia]

I did consider that, but I know there are some seals connecting the base to the upper part of the fill valve, and I don't know how old that base part is for me (20 year old pool is new to me as a result of a recent move), so I'm just going to buy the replacement valve from Poolmiser. It's not that expensive in the grand scheme of pool expenses. I see it under $30 in a few places online.

Since the upper and lower parts slide to an adjustable height, it's probably an O-ring or two - and they should be interchangeable. Or you could try making your own restrictor. I just hate paying $30 vs < $10 for what amounts to a 5 cent restrictor addon.

 

[Dirk]

Since the upper and lower parts slide to an adjustable height, it's probably an O-ring or two - and they should be interchangeable.

That is exactly right. There is an o-ring on the top of the base part. The o-ring from the toilet valve base can replace the o-ring on the original PoolMiser base. There is just one on the base. You can see that clearly if you click on my picture in my post #15 above, and then zoom in on the top of each base. The tops are identical.

 

[Dirk]

it's looking like it's been on its last legs for a while

It really does. It's been like that for years. And after seeing the video, if that's the owner, then the PoolMiser company might also be on its last legs, if he doesn't sell it. Which will be too bad, because it's a great product at a fair price.

If I can get a toilet valve to work atop the PoolMiser base, then I should be good. I have two PoolMiser bases, and Fluidmaster will never stop making those toilet valves.