Aussie test kits and hello

[AUSpool]

Thanks Jezza, I've gone cold on the idea and bought my son a soft ball bat marked down to $10 instead. From a random Google search I saw a K2005C at a good price but by the time I ditch 4 of the regents to get it home and replace them it's just as effective to have it shipped direct or via a forwarding company and get the complet kit. I found a site called USGoBuy that can forward from the original outlet and land it on my door for AU$200.

It it looked like there were some compatibility issues with some reagents where the drop sizes and concentrations are different. It's probably just as easy, quicker and cheaper to get the one from CCL.

As I was writing this I went back and reviewed the SMDS's a little more carefully.:study:

Whilst four of the reagents are classified as dangerous goods (class 3 and class 8) under section 14. Transport, IATA, Other information, passenger and cargo aircraft - Allowed. Most likely because the concentrations are so low and that had me thinking about it. Oh well, too late now, maybe next time. And it could be at the discretion of security and still loose it without compensation.

 

[MarianParoo]

You don't really want a 2005 anyway. It's missing the FAS-DPD. No worries!

 

[AUSpool]

Oops, sorry my bad, typo. It should read K2006C.

 

[MarianParoo]

Phew!!! Good news, AUSpool!

 

[Jezza]

Sounds like a lot of messing around. Whether you go with the CCL kit or get a K2006 sent over I'm sure you'll be happy.

 

[needsajet]

For anyone considering this option, my K2005C, salt test kit, and extra reagents arrived from America!

Ordered Fri, Jan 15. Left PoolVacParts Wed, Jan 20. Arrived at Aus customs Sat, Jan 23. Cleared Sun, Jan 24. Delivered to our door Mon, Jan 25.

 

[MarianParoo]

That is awesome!!!! Results please!

 

[MarianParoo]

That was a typo? You meant the 2006-C, I hope!!! AUSpool did the same typo! You Aussies get my stress levels up!

 

[needsajet]

Yes indeed, my bad typo, Mme. Paroo... K-2006C all the way!

Mates, bit of an update. I kicked myself for spending so much to get the K-2006C, but as it turns out, there's more tests than I thought. The CCL looks like a better entry point, and with refills should be cheaper. That said, the K-2006C has a lot more tests. Here's a little table after some experience with the K-2006C. My numbers for the CCL kit are just based on the components and instructions available online.

Test and................ No. of tests...... No. of tests
indicator/reagent.... K-2006C.......... CCL............... Remarks
FC DPD powder...... 160................. 80................. 80 out of my first 10g; used 2 scoops for a while - 100 tests per 10g powder expected
FC FAS reagent...... 144................. 67................. assuming 5 ppm FC average
CC DPD reagent..... 288................. 48
pH indicator........... 288................ 120
TA........................ 206................ 150................ assuming 70 ppm; Taylor limited by sulphuric acid solution; CCL limited by alkalinity indicator
CYA...................... 25.................. 14
CH....................... 111................. 55................. assuming 325 ppm

For salt, CCL includes a hydrometer, so no limit. For Taylor, I had to buy a K-1766 kit which does 24 tests at 4400 ppm. CCL also includes standard solutions.

I spent $340 to set up with Taylor ($190 for K-2006C kit, $35 for K-1766 salt kit, $14 for extra 400 ml CYA reagent, $14 for extra 10g DPD powder, $16 for extra 60 ml FAS reagent, $68 for shipping). Based on number of tests, the $340 isn't as bad as I thought compared to CCL. I suspect by buying refills for CCL, it would be the better value.

 

[AUSpool]

I went with Taylor also, a K-2006 and K-1766 for $95 + $56 for shipping. I was worried that some of the regents might go off before I could use them so I went for the smaller kit and now I've got the nice little box I can replace individual tests from CCL as needed.

I really needed the CYA standard to be confident with the CYA test so got the standard from CCL. I placed an order at 9:30pm and received an email confirming it had been shipped 4 hours later at 1:30am - that's service.

I have an old Blue Devil 4in1 and use that for my pH as I find it easier to read than the Taylor one.

...
For salt, CCL includes a hydrometer, so no limit. For Taylor, I had to buy a K-1766 kit which does 24 tests at 4400 ppm. CCL also includes standard solutions.
...

The Waterco hydrometers don't compensate for temperature, the CCL ones are calibrated at 25degC so it's best to get the sample to 25degC for use in the hydrometer. I found the K-1766 to be out by ~10% at 6000ppm when used with a 6000ppm standard solution. The Taylor kit read 6600ppm when testing my 6000ppm standard solution. Which as I believe is kind of at the tolerance for the Taylor titration tests although this is not confirmed.

When the drop count is 10 drops or less, the tolerance of the test is +/- 1 drop. When the drop count exceeds 10 drops, the tolerance of the test is +/-10% of the final answer.

 

[needsajet]

Well done, Steve. Much better value! Now I'm kicking myself again, haha, but overall I'm happy with my testing capabilities and the pool looks great . I was at Pool and Spa Warehouse the other day, and asked about reagents for Taylor and they said they can order them in, but didn't have prices. They said I can list what I need and they'll let me know. I still think a migration to CCL will be my better way to go. Thanks for the details on yours, mate.

 

[AUSpool]

I know it's been a while now but I thought a follow up may be appropriate. I've got a Taylor K-2006 and it was time to top up on a few reagents. I was running low on R-0871 and R-0013. I thought I would compare the Taylor MSDS's to the CCL MSDS's and guess what, CCL use the Taylor MSDS's so I have to assume the reagents are the exact same. I placed an order and true to their previous form the order was on my door step the next business day.

The dropper tips look a bit different so I'm planning on topping up my original Taylor R-0871 bottle but the CYA reagent doesn't matter.

 

[Jezza]

Hi Steve,

Unfortunately the CCL version of the R-0871 is not transferable to the Taylor bottles- they have different drop sizes -not quite sure how that works if the MSDS's are the same. The company on their website are fairly clear on that. It is a bit of a shame really because the drops come out of the Taylor bottles much more consistently- the CCL ones can tend to build up static as well. Not a big deal but a little annoying though.

Obviously a lot easier and cheaper to be able to get refills within Oz.

Update -This is from their website

'The chemical reactions that happen in our kits are they same that happen in the Taylor, Lamotte, and other kits. However, each manufacturer uses different sized tubes, and different nozzles on their dropper bottles, and this means that the amount of product required or added at each step will be slightly different. The concentrations of each reagent are therefore adjusted to suit the individual bottles so that the results (eg. free chlorine in ppm) are the same between kits.

This means that you need to exercise some caution when mixing reagents from different manufacturers, and our reagents are no different. For example, while you would get the same results using our Chlorine Titration Reagent as the R-0871 reagent from Taylor, you can not mix the two in the same bottle as the concentrations are different.

Having said that, many of our reagents can directly interchangeable with the Taylor kits, and all are 100% compatible with the Taylor kits.

We have produced a full chemical compatibility chart for our reagents, so you can make the best decision for your situation'.

 

[MarianParoo]

How complicated can it get for you Aussies??!

 

[AUSpool]

Hi Steve,

Unfortunately the CCL version of the R-0871 is not transferable to the Taylor bottles- they have different drop sizes -

Geday Jezza,
If the MSDS's are the same then the fluid in the two different branded bottles should in theory be the same. I'm going to take the top off both bottles and tip the CCL #3 chlorine titrating reagent into my empty R-0871 bottle and put the Taylor tip/top back on. CCL reagent in a Taylor bottle - drop size problem fixed - I hope. But just to be sure I'll test new for old on the same sample just before my Taylor reagent runs out.

 

[Jezza]

Should be an easy little experiment to perform. I've run out of Taylor R-0871 reagent and now just relying on CCL. Let us know how you get on.

 

[AUSpool]

I've just topped up my Taylor R-0871 (chlorine titrating reagent) with the CCL #3 chlorine titrating reagent and the before and after water tests are not what I expected given that the MSDS's are identical.

Just to be clear this is what I did. I collected a 125ml pool water sample as usual. I tested 10ml of the water with 2 dippers of R-0870, mixed, and titrating with the R-0871. - 13 drops, FC 6.5ppm. - Removed the Taylor screw top and dropper tip from the Taylor R-0871 bottle and filled it with the CCL #3 chlorine titrating reagent. Tested another 10ml sample taken from the original 125ml sample. 10ml of pool water, 2 dippers of R-0870, mixed, titrated with my now refilled R-0871 bottle with CCL reagent. 16 drops, FC = 8ppm. - not what I expected or wanted and I don't know where to go from here.

My old R-0871 reagent was within date; D3028 EXP 10/16. I wish I had preformed the original test twice but I can't redo it now my existing Talor bottle was refilled. I have a local store that uses Taylor so I'll endeavour to get a new bottle of the Taylor R-0871 from them and then compare the two again.

Maybe CCL use a different volume so;
11.5ml of same sample, 22 drops - 11ppm FC.
14.6ml of same sample, 25 drops - 12.5ppm FC.
10ml of new sample, 18 drops - 9ppm FC.
10mlof new sample, 15 drops from CCL bottle - 9ppm FC.
Arrrr - wish I hadn't started this.

As a side note I got the CCL viewing tube and when running the 50ppm standard in it I had to stand with the view tube facing direct sunlight to get the test tube 'dot' to vanish at 50ppm.

 

[Jezza]

Thanks Steve for running that little experiment- yes shame you couldn't repeat the testing to establish some sort of consistent trend. It definitely doesn't make a lot of sense if the MSDS is the same. But for me the big question is does the CCL version of the R-0871 measure the same FC as the Taylor version-different drop sizes being taken into account?

 

[AUSpool]

It's a bit dissapointing. Unfortunatly the LPS that uses Taylor uses a K-1289 (DPD slide comparator) so their reagents are different and I can't get the R-0871 through them. They did test my FC - 8ppm so I'm thinking my original test was out. Either the sample had less FC or it was user error.

The tips are defiantly different so one would assume the drop sizes are too. I had used the CCL fluid in a Taylor bottle and tip so that shouldn't be a problem, particularly if the CCL reagent is the Taylor reagent repackaged. If the drop sizes are significantly different do CCL use a different sample volume or dilute the reagent.

 

[AUSpool]

Sorry Jezza, I finally got it, it's drop size and concentration which makes sense. I should have paid attention to this.

.
.

'... The concentrations of each reagent are therefore adjusted to suit the individual bottles so that the results (eg. free chlorine in ppm) are the same between kits.

This means that you need to exercise some caution when mixing reagents from different manufacturers, and our reagents are no different. For example, while you would get the same results using our Chlorine Titration Reagent as the R-0871 reagent from Taylor, you can not mix the two in the same bottle as the concentrations are different.

Having said that, many of our reagents can directly interchangeable with the Taylor kits, and all are 100% compatible with the Taylor kits.

We have produced a full chemical compatibility chart for our reagents, so you can make the best decision for your situation'.

CCL use Taylor reagents which is why they use the Taylor MSDS's. However they use deferent bottles with different drop sizes and adjust the reagent concentration to suit, mostly for the titrating reagents. Many like the DPD powder are unadjusted and where nessarsary the instructions use a variance in the number of drops used. CCL are a pleasure to deal with and I have some more reagents on the way.

I bought the Taylor K2006 and wanted to top it up with CCL reagents as needed, keeping every in the one place. Unfortunatly several of the CCL reagents use the larger size bottles and don't fit in the K2006 box. Should have bought the K2006C. I bought the small CYA view tube and cut off half of the Blue devil pH comparator which I don't use so they fit in my Taylor box. Winter is a good time to get things fixed and my test kit sorted.