Are SWG's really worth the hype? your experience beforevsafter, recommend type

[aerangis]

Here's what I've figured so far, what I need to do is figure what my daily loss of chlorine is (taking a measurement in the a.m. and taking one in the p.m. after the sun goes down). I'll be able to see what my loss is from the sun. I can then figure out and play with my unit %'s to see what will stabilize it at the level i need compared to the cya and pool math calculator.

It would be interesting to see if the amount of chlorine it generates matches the rated output at a given setting. Measure your FC at sunset, fire up the swcg, and check the FC in the AM

Who is/where is the manufacturer of the various swcg sytems that are sold by Circupool?

 

[Philo]

^^^ +1

 

[lightmaster]

Talked with Support. Very helpful. I learned that depending on the model of the Cell, it will generate X amount of pounds of Chlorine in a 24hr period. The percentage signs we see on the digital screen (ie: what we make it go from 0% to 100%) is actually how much of the daily value of the pounds of chlorine it will generate. example: lets say my cell produces 2lbs of chlorine in a 24hr period. the % I run the cell is converted into minutes by the computer. So if 100% = 2lbs of chlorine to generate in a 24hr period AND the cell only took 200 minutes to generate the 2 lbs, then running it at 50% would be estimated at 100 minutes of run time to get 1lb of chlorine in a 24hr period.

That's interesting, and considering my experience, I'm not sure its 100% correct what they told you. The SWG doesn't actually know how much chlorine it can produce, and the percentage is how much of each cycle time the cell is generating. Cycle times are different from manufacturer to manufacturer, but the general concept is the same. If your manufacturer choose a 1 hour cycle time, and you have it set for 25%, then it would generate for 15 mins, be off for 45 mins, generate for 15 mins, etc etc. If your manufacturer used 30 minute cycle times instead, then 25% means it would generate for around 7.5 mins, and be off for 22.5 mins, and repeat over and over until your pump and SWG is turned off. The end result is more or less the same, producing 0.5 lbs of chlorine out of the maximum of 2 lbs if run 24 hours a day at 100%, but what the percentage actually controls is how long it is generating. When the generating light is on and its producing chlorine, its doing so at 100% for that time period since generation is only an on/off thing. It can't produce at 25% strength, so it produces at 100% strength for 25% of the time.

Now that I'm thinking about this, I'm really curious what cycle time Circupool uses. Probably gonna watch the light tomorrow when my pump is running to find out. If you want to do this yourself, turn your pump and SWG on and start a stopwatch. You'll see the generator light go off at some point and write down that time without stopping the stopwatch. Then when the generating light turns back on, stop your stopwatch and right down the time. The final time should be your cycle length, and the first time should be the percentage you set it to run at. IE, final time might be 60 mins, and the first time you wrote down should be 15 mins, if its set on 25%.

 

[lightmaster]

Who is/where is the manufacturer of the various swcg sytems that are sold by Circupool?

I'm 99% certain that CircuPool manufactures their own SWGs, not sourcing the manufacturing to another company. At the very least, there is no mention of any other company on their site or in the copyrights for their stuff that I can find. IF you're referring to when the were in business with CompuPool, they haven't had anything to do with them since 2012 and don't have the same issues that they had way back then.

I am glad to provide some insight here; CircuPool products have not been associated in any way with CompuPool since the fall of 2012. As a side note, some of the "look alike" units out there being marketed as "identical to popular CircuPool units" are indeed made by CompuPool and do not have one single common component with the (in my opinion) very reliable, high-quality units that bear the official CircuPool trademark. We urge all prospective buyers to thoroughly research any brands considered, including the company's historical propensity to honor it's warranty commitments.

 

[dd564]

I've had a Pentair IC40 for 2 full seasons. It has been easy and uneventful. My pool is ~30k gal and exposed to Texas sun the vast majority of the day. During peak summer heat I run the SWG 8 hrs/day and have no problem maintaining proper FC. After a large pool party (10-20 people (including kids)) I'll use a jug of 10% LC for a little extra insurance. Highly recommend the SWG route for convenience... it has been more expensive after factoring in the system, salt, extra acid etc. etc. But if your time is valuable, get one.

I just wish my Pentair unit would have lasted longer than 1.5 years. Trying to get the PB to handle warranty issues from Pentair has been problematic.
Paying $500-$800 a year for a new SWG is more expensive than buying bleach.

 

[Philo]

I wonder who the marketing guru is that branched off CompuPool with the name CiruPool...

 

[aerangis]

That's interesting, and considering my experience, I'm not sure its 100% correct what they told you. The SWG doesn't actually know how much chlorine it can produce.........

Correct, and a good point. SW Chlorine generators can measure a number of things in pool water. Chlorine is not one of them.

I'm suprised at the number of otherwise knowledgable folks that aren't aware of or ignore the relevance of that fact.

Imagine a product, (be it circupool, Jandy, Hayward, etc), a simple product, designed for one purpose, to generate a substance out of 2 common ingredients that everyone uses every day, using a simple well understood process (electrolysis), and the product can't measure how much (chlorine) it generates, nor how much (chlorine) is in the water.

That's analogous to a car without a graduated gas gauge, but a gas gauge that say's either FULL or EMPTY, with nothing in between. And the driver using mileage driven and how many miles per gallon that the car gets, to determine how much gas is left in the tank.

............"Sure, it makes chlorine......How much?......uhhhh"

 

[Philo]

Correct, and a good point. SW Chlorine generators can measure a number of things in pool water. Chlorine is not one of them.

I'm suprised at the number of otherwise knowledgable folks that aren't aware of or ignore the relevance of that fact.

Imagine a product, (be it circupool, Jandy, Hayward, etc), a simple product, designed for one purpose, to generate a substance out of 2 common ingredients that everyone uses every day, using a simple well understood process (electrolysis), and the product can't measure how much (chlorine) it generates, nor how much (chlorine) is in the water.

That's analogous to a car without a graduated gas gauge, but a gas gauge that say's either FULL or EMPTY, with nothing in between. And the driver using mileage driven and how many miles per gallon that the car gets, to determine how much gas is left in the tank.

............"Sure, it makes chlorine......How much?......uhhhh"

There needs to be a major break through with these things and that's a great place to start!

 

[lightmaster]

Correct, and a good point. SW Chlorine generators can measure a number of things in pool water. Chlorine is not one of them.

I'm suprised at the number of otherwise knowledgable folks that aren't aware of or ignore the relevance of that fact.

Imagine a product, (be it circupool, Jandy, Hayward, etc), a simple product, designed for one purpose, to generate a substance out of 2 common ingredients that everyone uses every day, using a simple well understood process (electrolysis), and the product can't measure how much (chlorine) it generates, nor how much (chlorine) is in the water.

That's analogous to a car without a graduated gas gauge, but a gas gauge that say's either FULL or EMPTY, with nothing in between. And the driver using mileage driven and how many miles per gallon that the car gets, to determine how much gas is left in the tank.

............"Sure, it makes chlorine......How much?......uhhhh"

My understanding is that current chlorine probes are pretty shotty, so why install one that will only increase the price, without being able to reliably do what it says? Worst case, it might think the FC is higher than the target and never turn on to generate.

 

[aerangis]

My understanding is that current chlorine probes are pretty shotty, so why install one that will only increase the price, without being able to reliably do what it says? Worst case, it might think the FC is higher than the target and never turn on to generate.

Sounds like you know what you're talking about.

What, exactly, is the basis of your "understanding"? I'd imagine anyone else interested in the subject would fiind the information useful.

 

[pooldv]

Lots of folks on TFP have Circupool SWGs, including quite a few regular contributing members. It is in the top 5 manufacturers of SWGs as far as I can tell here on TFP. I do not recall anyone having an inordinate amount of trouble with them or any difficulty getting them fixed under warranty. They are also one of the few who make a 60k sized cell.

The Compupool brand did have trouble a number of years ago and there are some generic cells sold for the Hayward Aquarite SWGs that should be avoided at all costs, especially ones sold on eBay.

Made in China certainly is not an indication of good or bad quality these days since more things are made in China than aren't.

Correct, and a good point. SW Chlorine generators can measure a number of things in pool water. Chlorine is not one of them.

I'm suprised at the number of otherwise knowledgable folks that aren't aware of or ignore the relevance of that fact.

Imagine a product, (be it circupool, Jandy, Hayward, etc), a simple product, designed for one purpose, to generate a substance out of 2 common ingredients that everyone uses every day, using a simple well understood process (electrolysis), and the product can't measure how much (chlorine) it generates, nor how much (chlorine) is in the water.

That's analogous to a car without a graduated gas gauge, but a gas gauge that say's either FULL or EMPTY, with nothing in between. And the driver using mileage driven and how many miles per gallon that the car gets, to determine how much gas is left in the tank.

............"Sure, it makes chlorine......How much?......uhhhh"

Best I know, all SWG manufacturers publish the amount of chlorine their cell can generate in 24 hours. It is published in the manual for my SWG.

 

[pooldv]

A TFP member made an SWG runtime calculator here, SWG Run Time Calculator

And there is a chart that shows chlorine production for most SWG brands here, Compare and Review Saltwater Chlorine Generator Prices and Features





And to answer OPs question, yes SWGs are totally worth it. I wouldn't ever build a pool without one.

 

[lightmaster]

And to answer OPs question, yes SWGs are totally worth it. I wouldn't ever build a pool without one.

For the OP, after a year of adding bleach and now 4 months of using a SWG, yes a SWG is worth it no matter which brand you go with. Even if I don't save money with it (theoretically anyone should), not having to come home after work and deal with adding bleach every single day is so much better!

 

[FLAK111]

Thanks for the follow ups and great conversations! I've been a little busy to reply sooner.

As being new to a SWG (having one for only a few months) I would AGREE and say a SWG is worth the investment so far. putting in a little bit a M. Acid in every week or other week is minimal when it comes to adding Chlorine every day/other day or adding pucks. ***stay away from pucks!! they'll jack your CYA!)

@lightmaster: i see your point. on for XX minutes....off, on......off throughout a 24hr period. That was not the info given to me for the circupool. it was the % set at = how many minutes it will produce in a 24hr period of the total capable lbs of chlorine. Once it produces say 80% of the 2.lbs then it hibernates. I would love to do what you mentioned and watch the cycle. but that will have to happen sooner or later. recently in the past few days i've had mine set at 80%. set to come on at 9 and off at 8pm. I checked my FC everymorning for 3 days. 11jun = 5.5, 12jun = 4.5, 13 jun = 3.5. So it appears i'm loosing 1 part per day (with this texas heat/sun) set at 80%. Today i will be running it at 100% and tomorrow morning I will check to see where i am at. I doubt I will still be loosing at this point. BUT based on what you mentioned, if it is indeed a cycling 24 hr on/off, then maybe I can reduce back to 80% for a longer period. all in all, many little variables are still unknown as previously discussed. After tomorrow morning's reading, I may do what aerangis mentioned and take a reading before bed say @ 9pm after sun is all the way down. Run my SWG at 100% until 0900 and see the reading then and compare.

 

[Killer95Stang]

Look at it this way... "Most" of us have lives away from our pool, so if you don't have to add Chlorine everyday like brushing your teeth, then of course an SWG will be easier. Not to mention, your pool won't dip below the minimum CYA / Chlorine threshold on a daily basis like some people allow their pools to do. I'm not bragging, but I'm one of those people that are on their 5 season since the pool was built and have never had an algae outbreak. My neighbor who maintains his pool by TFP standards built 2 years later and he is always battling with small algae blooms because his busy schedule makes it impossible to add chlorine every day.

 

[Rossterman]

My experience has been a mixed bag. On my 3rd replacement (jandy aquapure 1400) after 12 years of service so cost wise probably not a great investment (and I do my own work so would be even worse if I had to call a repair guy each time). Will probably go the stenner route when this one eventually craps out. Here’s my pros/cons:

pros-
1. low maintenance (if running properly)
2. Saves trips to buy chlorine jugs
3. people comment as to how soft the water feels with saltwater
4. no issues with elevated CYA like happens with tablets
5. Later models units seem better made more reliable (aquapure specific comment)
6. Can leave pool while on vacation and not come back to a green mess

cons-
1. expensive to purchase and maintain (had multiple board failures, cells that didn’t last expected life, flow sensors fail, etc
2. repair parts are expensive and troubleshooting is complex (enough so that purchasing a completely new unit was a better option a few times rather than risk throwing parts at it)
3. zero support from Jandy (zotiac) to the consumer troubleshooting issues
4. need extended run times in summer to generate enough chlorine= higher electricity bills
5. Salt damages coping (natural stone) more than non saltwater pool.
6. Still need to add chlorine in winter as cells don’t operate in cold water

IMO, liquid chlorine injection is the best option (for my situation) and next build will forgo using a SWG.

 

[lightmaster]

Thanks for the follow ups and great conversations! I've been a little busy to reply sooner.

As being new to a SWG (having one for only a few months) I would AGREE and say a SWG is worth the investment so far. putting in a little bit a M. Acid in every week or other week is minimal when it comes to adding Chlorine every day/other day or adding pucks. ***stay away from pucks!! they'll jack your CYA!)

@lightmaster: i see your point. on for XX minutes....off, on......off throughout a 24hr period. That was not the info given to me for the circupool. it was the % set at = how many minutes it will produce in a 24hr period of the total capable lbs of chlorine. Once it produces say 80% of the 2.lbs then it hibernates. I would love to do what you mentioned and watch the cycle. but that will have to happen sooner or later. recently in the past few days i've had mine set at 80%. set to come on at 9 and off at 8pm. I checked my FC everymorning for 3 days. 11jun = 5.5, 12jun = 4.5, 13 jun = 3.5. So it appears i'm loosing 1 part per day (with this texas heat/sun) set at 80%. Today i will be running it at 100% and tomorrow morning I will check to see where i am at. I doubt I will still be loosing at this point. BUT based on what you mentioned, if it is indeed a cycling 24 hr on/off, then maybe I can reduce back to 80% for a longer period. all in all, many little variables are still unknown as previously discussed. After tomorrow morning's reading, I may do what aerangis mentioned and take a reading before bed say @ 9pm after sun is all the way down. Run my SWG at 100% until 0900 and see the reading then and compare.

Being in the hot/intense Texas sun, how much time does your pool spend in the sunshine each day and what is your current CYA level? You might be able to raise your CYA a little to help fight off the sun.

Also, the 2lbs max is calculated at 100% running 24/7, so in theory, if you run 100% for 12hrs a day, you're producing 1lb chlorine.

What they said and what I said, the effect either way is the same, changing the percent of the maximum chlorine that's produced per day. The big difference is that what they said, that it's a percentage of the max chlorine produced, ignores the fact that the time the pump is running is the other half of determining how much chlorine is produced, and that the SWG has no idea how long it will be on. Its like how pushing the gas pedal in your car doesn't actually change your speed, it opens up the throttle valve more which in turn makes the ECU increase the amount of gas pumped into the engine, which raises the RPMs, which raises your speed. In the end, it still raises your speed, so an oversimplified way of saying it is that pushing the gas pedal increases your speed. (side note, I guess a better term would be air pedal then, lol).

 

[lightmaster]

And getting back to your original question, yes yes yes yes yes (and pretty much any and every SWG owner has said this and agrees), a SWG is worth it even if you don't save money. I'm going out of town for a long weekend this weekend, and I have no worry at all that my pool will be turning green when I get home. No worry about does a neighbor or friend actually come add chlorine for me or can I afford the CYA increase from adding tabs for the weekend. I just keeps on making chlorine even if I'm not at home. I could go on a 2 week vacation and with no extra maintenance before I leave, my pool would still be at my target when I got home 2 weeks later. That assurance and convenience is definitely worth paying the up front cost to buy a SWG.

I know you already have your SWG now, just pointing out about vacations in case you hadn't thought of it or if anyone else reads this when debating buying a SWG for themselves.

 

[afbatts]

One reason to monitor CSI (Calcium Scaling Index) is when you have a SWCG. By keeping CSI under 0.0, you will not build scale on the plates. You can also use borates (boric acid) to reduce the pH rise in the cell when it generates the chlorine. I keep my CSI under 0.0 and have not had to clean the cell in the 3 years it has been operating.

Your IC20 stops generating at 68F? That is the highest temp I have seen. My system shows 52F water temp when my IC40 stops producing.

I’m with you on that!! I maintain a slightly below 0.0 CSI and my Cell is always clean. Like -.1 -.2 i was amazed at how clean it was.

 

[Newdude]

I just looked up the Compu Pool BBB review: CompuPool Products USA, Inc. | Better Business Bureau® Profile

its got a pretty solid "F" rating. ugh. I will be not getting it even though its very very intreguing

The BBB makes its operating money from charging businesses ‘dues’ in order to be accredited by its service. It reeks of suspicion and is the perfect breeding ground for fraudulent reviews. (In theory). Of roughly 13 chapters, one was removed for fraud. (Or for getting caught at least). Personally I trust them about as much as I do any large corporation.