Aquarite Lo Salt

[truepoolblues]

Check the amps while running. Multiply by 0.18 to get the total output (lbs chlorine gas) per day.

Can I ask your source for this?

Is 0.18 for any salt cell or just the Hayward Low Salt specifically?

I have the AQR-LS-CUL and have not been able to find this information anywhere.

My amps are only 3.75 when generating which would mean output of .675 lbs running at 100% output all the time. (As an aside does this amp level seem correct?)

0.675 lbs seem super light. Plugging this into the Pool Math app suggests the max chlorine we would ever be able to generate in a day for our 17,500 gallon pool would be approx 4ppm.

Our pool gets full sun all day long and we have two very active kids who spend multiple hours a day swimming in the pool often with friends over.

We've been having trouble getting our FC up above 1ppm running the cell at 100pct with the pump running all the time. If these numbers are correct it sounds like my cell will never be able to break even without supplemental liquid chlorine.

Any sources/thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[PoolStored]

Can I ask your source for this?

Great source for you...

Hayward Aquarite SWG - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

We've been having trouble getting our FC up above 1ppm running the cell at 100pct with the pump running all the time. If these numbers are correct it sounds like my cell will never be able to break even without supplemental liquid chlorine.

That is possible. Use liquid to raise FC, then use the cell to maintain. SWCG is good at maintaining, not good at raising. It certainly doesn't have the capacity to raise it from 1 to a higher target.

 

[JamesW]

Is 0.18 for any salt cell or just the Hayward Low Salt specifically?

It is my estimate from the data that I have seen.

I think that it is probably between about 0.18 and 0.20.

My amps are only 3.75 when generating which would mean output of .675 lbs running at 100% output all the time. (As an aside does this amp level seem correct?)

For the low salt system the lower salinity means lower production.

https://ca.hayward.com/media/akeneo_connector/asset_files/a/q/aqr_low_salt_manual_b6a0.pdf

https://ca.hayward.com/media/akeneo_connector/asset_files/a/q/aqua_rite_low_salt_trifold_LITAQRLSTFC_bilingual_2866.pdf

AquaRite Low Salt w/ 25,000 gallon TurboCell

AquaRite is the #1 selling electronic chlorine generator that eliminates the need to mix, measure and mess around with liquid or tablet chlorine and dramatically enhances the swimming experience.

ca.hayward.com

AquaRite Low Salt w/ 25,000 gallon TurboCell

It is listed as 25,000 or 30,000 gallons, but that really does not mean anything.

I can't find the actual Output, but I think that it is a T-15 cell.

The output depends on the voltage, salinity, water temperature and cell plate surface area.

So, at half the salinity, it should produce the same as a T-5 cell, which is about 0.735 lbs. per day.

Aquarite Cell Plates
Here are the dimensions of the Hayward plates:

T-15 has 13 Titanium Plates, 150 x 63mm. Produces 1.47 lbs/day (at 3,200 ppm salinity).

T-9 has 13 Titanium Plates, 101 x 63mm. Produces 0.98 lbs/day.

T-5 has 7 Titanium plate, 150 x 63mm. Produces 0.735 lbs/day.

T-3 has 7 Titanium Plates, 101 x 63mm. Produces 0.53 lbs/day.

 

[truepoolblues]

Great source for you...

Hayward Aquarite SWG - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

That is possible. Use liquid to raise FC, then use the cell to maintain. SWCG is good at maintaining, not good at raising. It certainly doesn't have the capacity to raise it from 1 to a higher target.

That is where I started! And the footnote number 10 for the 0.18 reference brought me to the forum post that I replied to.

 

[truepoolblues]

It is my estimate from the data that I have seen.

For the low salt system the lower salinity means lower production.

View attachment 596458

https://ca.hayward.com/media/akeneo_connector/asset_files/a/q/aqr_low_salt_manual_b6a0.pdf

https://ca.hayward.com/media/akeneo_connector/asset_files/a/q/aqua_rite_low_salt_trifold_LITAQRLSTFC_bilingual_2866.pdf

AquaRite Low Salt w/ 25,000 gallon TurboCell

AquaRite is the #1 selling electronic chlorine generator that eliminates the need to mix, measure and mess around with liquid or tablet chlorine and dramatically enhances the swimming experience.

ca.hayward.com

AquaRite Low Salt w/ 25,000 gallon TurboCell

It is listed as 25,000 or 30,000 gallons, but that really does not mean anything.

I can't find the actual Output, but I think that it is a T-15 cell.

The output depends on the voltage, salinity, water temperature and cell plate surface area.

So, at half the salinity, it should produce the same as a T-5 cell, which is about 0.735 lbs. per day.

Aquarite Cell Plates
Here are the dimensions of the Hayward plates:

T-15 has 13 Titanium Plates, 150 x 63mm. Produces 1.47 lbs/day.

T-9 has 13 Titanium Plates, 101 x 63mm. Produces 0.98 lbs/day.

T-5 has 7 Titanium plate, 150 x 63mm. Produces 0.735 lbs/day.

T-3 has 7 Titanium Plates, 101 x 63mm. Produces 0.53 lbs/day.

Thank you. So sounds like the cell is producing what it is capable of (ie not faulty), but what it is capable of is not enough for our pool size and chlorine demand without additional liquid chlorine.

What I can't quite wrap my head around is if the regular T-15 is good for a 40k gallon pool and the low salt version only produces half the amount of chlorine why does it say it's good for 30k gallons, seems like proportionally it should only be good for 20k?

 

[PoolStored]

Marketing…

 

[truepoolblues]

Marketing…

Hmm...

It's a brand new pool and salt system (up and running for 3 weeks). Same company recommended, sold us, and installed both the pool and the salt system and all other equipment as a package.

Did they sell us a cell that is undersized/underpowered for our pool? Or is it typically that people boost with liquid chlorine and only use SWG to maintain?

 

[PoolStored]

Did they sell us a cell that is undersized/underpowered for our pool?

Yes.

 

[JamesW]

Plugging this into the Pool Math app suggests the max chlorine we would ever be able to generate in a day for our 17,500 gallon pool would be approx 4ppm.

4 ppm is enough.

You should have a Variable Speed Pump, which is inexpensive to keep going 24/7 at low speed.

 

[ajw22]

You can disable the low salt mode, increase the salt level, and run it as a normal T-15 cell with increased output.

 

[JamesW]

That might not be available on every model.

Diagnostic Displays
Sequential pushes of the small “diagnostic” button next to the LCD display will cause the Aqua Trol
to display the following information:
1. Pool temperature (xx degrees Fahrenheit or Celsius)
2. Cell voltage (typically xx.x volts when chlorine is being generated, otherwise 30-35V)
3. Cell current (typically x.xx amps when chlorine is being generated, otherwise 0 amps)
4. Desired Output % (“0P” -- “100P” depending on knob position )
5. Instant salinity ( -xxxx ppm or -x.xx grams/Liter)
6. Product name sent to the display (“AL-6” signifies “Aqua Trol” (STD), (“AL-7” signifies “Aqua
Trol Return-Jet”)
7. Software revision level (r1.xx)
8. Salt Mode (nSlt = Normal Salt Mode, lSlt=Low Salt Mode)
On the 9th push of the button the display will revert back to the default salt display.

Salt Mode
Aqua Trol is shipped in Normal Salt Mode requiring your pool’s ideal salt level to be 3200 ppm. To
change to Low Salt Mode (1500 ppm ideal level), perform the following steps:
1. Slide the Main Switch from “Off” to the “Auto” position.
2. Push the Diagnostic button repeatedly until “nSlt” appears on the display. This indicates that the
unit is in Normal Salt Mode.
3. Slide the Main Switch from “Auto” to “Super Chlorinate” and back to “Auto”. The display should
toggle to “lSlt” which indicates Low Salt Mode.
4. Do not touch any buttons for 30 seconds and the display will revert back to the current Salt Display.

 

[JamesW]

OmniLogic, AQR S3 Omni and the AquaTrol Broad Salt System have a toggle for low salt or regular salt.

AQR-LS-CUL does not seem to have the toggle.

Note: "CUL" means Canada Underwriter's Laboratory model.

Check the diagnostics to see if the mode is displayed.

If not, you probably cannot change it.

You can ask Hayward where the high salt level is that causes the system to shut off and then add salt to the maximum level.

Some localities have passed regulations regarding salt water pools, so you should check your local regulations.

Diagnostic Displays
Sequential pushes of the small “diagnostic” button next to the LCD display will cause the Aqua Trol
to display the following information:
1. Pool temperature (xx degrees Fahrenheit or Celsius)
2. Cell voltage (typically xx.x volts when chlorine is being generated, otherwise 30-35V)
3. Cell current (typically x.xx amps when chlorine is being generated, otherwise 0 amps)
4. Desired Output % (“0P” -- “100P” depending on knob position )
5. Instant salinity ( -xxxx ppm or -x.xx grams/Liter)
6. Product name sent to the display (“AL-6” signifies “Aqua Trol” (STD), (“AL-7” signifies “Aqua
Trol Return-Jet”)
7. Software revision level (r1.xx)
8. Salt Mode (nSlt = Normal Salt Mode, lSlt=Low Salt Mode)

 

[JamesW]

 

[truepoolblues]

Thanks for everyone's help! Don't think we can switch to normal salt mode as number 8 in the diagnostics let's you pick cell T-9 or T-15.

We had a few overcast days in a row where we kept the pool covered most of the time and had the cell running 100pct with the pump going 24hours a day and we managed to get the chlorine levels up to about 2.5ppm.

 

[PoolStored]

We had a few overcast days in a row where we kept the pool covered most of the time and had the cell running 100pct with the pump going 24hours a day and we managed to get the chlorine levels up to about 2.5ppm.

SWCG is not good at raising FC. Raise FC with liquid chlorine, maintain fc with SWCG.

You also need to maintain FC based on your CYA. Good read for you...Link-->FC/CYA Levels

 

[JamesW]

Contact Hayward and ask them how high the salinity can go before it shuts off.

Normally, the shutoff is in amps and not based on the salinity, so they should be able to tell you the amperage where the system shuts down.

Then, you can add salt to increase the amperage, which increases production.

 

[truepoolblues]

Contact Hayward and ask them how high the salinity can go before it shuts off.

Normally, the shutoff is in amps and not based on the salinity, so they should be able to tell you the amperage where the system shuts down.

Then, you can add salt to increase the amperage, which increases production.

Awesome idea! I'll add that to my list of Questions for them. I called them a few days ago and am waiting for an email to set up a call with a tech, they said it could take up to 5 business days to hear back.

 

[truepoolblues]

Just did a proper OCLT test (dark to dark, SWG off) and got a FC loss of exactly 1ppm.

The first part of my question is what is people's anecdotal experience (or theoretical explanations) with results right at the cutoff? Do I consider myself totally in the clear because I technically passed the test? Or does a borderline result mean I'm right on the verge of trouble? How often are people typically doing OCLTs? Would you do it more often after a result of 1.0?

(As an aside my pool water is crystal clear, I've just been obsessively testing because I'm brand new to pools and my Taylor Test Kit and TFP said I should be testing this)

Also, part two of my question is if I lost 1ppm over 7.5 hours that is 1/7.5=0.13 ppm/hour. Does this mean if I had extended the test window to 8.5 hours I would have lost 1.13 and failed the test or if I had shortened it to 6.5 hours I would have lost 0.87ppm and think I very comfortably passed (assuming I could actually measure with 0.1 granularity, I realize I can only do 0.2)?

What is the typical test window for valid results and why isn't the passing threshold adjusted for duration? Is the FC loss to algae not linear over time?

 

[truepoolblues]

I am still suspicious that our SWG generator is not producing what it is capable of. We have been running it at 100pct, 24 hours a day, for a month straight (with the exception of a couple of overnight OCLTs). We inspected the cell last week and hosed it off, there was no notable build up.

I figured two back to back OCLTs, one with the SWG on and one with the SWG off, should isolate the effect of the SWG producing vs pool deamnd (which overnight should only be algae consuming). These are my results:

Test 1:
Fri 9:45pm 3.6ppm
Sat 5:15am 3.6ppm
SWG 100pct, pump on, therefore:
SWG - Algae = 0

Test 2:
Sat 9:45pm 4.8ppm
Sun 5:15am 3.8ppm
SWG off, pump on, therefor:
Algae = 1

So together that suggests SWG = 1 over 7.5 hours which would be 24/7.5=3.2 over 24 hours

This is almost 30 percent less than an amperage based estimate of 3.75*0.18=0.675lbs, which in a 17,500 gallon pool should be 4.6ppm over 24 hours according to the Pool Math calculator.

It is a Hayward Aquarite Low Sat Cell with a recommended sodium level of 1500 ppm (we have 1600 ppm) and the amperage is typically between 3.75 and 4.0 when I walk by the panel and check the diagnostics. In another thread it was discussed whether I could jack up the salt beyond what is recommended to get more amperage/output, but setting that aside for a moment, am I even getting what I should be at the current salt/amperage?

Are there other reasons I could be underperforming the amperage based output estimate?

We already figured out that we should turn the cell from hump up (which is how our pool company installed it!) to hump down, which did seem to boost our output but it still feels like we are not getting what the cell should be capable of. (And it seems our cell is barely big enough as it is). Interestingly, despite daily FC tests showing we either suddenly started using less or producing more FC after we flipped the cell, the average amperage readings on the SWG did not go up.

Are there other things I should be doing to diagnose? We have tried to talk to the pool company but they just talk in circles about the demand of different pools. I do feel I've isolated the demand side with two back to back OCLTs, but open to other suggestions for how to empirically test my output!

 

[ajw22]

Are you testing with a 10ml or 25ml sample?

What FC level did you start with?

I would not worry too much about a 1ppm loss. I would just raise my FC to half SLAM level for a while and run it a bit hot. If you have a bit of algae that should get rid of it.

At 1ppm loss you don’t have a big algae problem, if you have any problem at all.