Another Southerner caught and taught by a hard freeze

[Newdude]

The snorkel idea mentioned above would require attaching a snorkel to every return to blow out those lines but I'd have to leave each snorkel installed throughout the freeze period.

I don't like snorkels as the ice rink will have a firm hold on them if it decides to shift. It might damage the return fitting.

Use Bungee plugs. I did not trust my duck plug and the ice pulled the cap mid winter, leaving the flimsy rubber duck lips exposed.

Blow though gizmos perform double duty. They allow you to clear the system without having to drain, then cap them and they'll absorb any skimmer ice expansion.

A compressor likely won't blow the whole system so you'll need a cyclone. If there is any iota of a leak anywhere the compressor loses its oomph. Imagine how long it takes to fill a pool float. Now imagine popping a pin hole in the float and it might never fill. My shop vac surprisingly blew my whole system from the skimmer, but I have dirt simple plumbing.

Closing with shop vac.

Today was the day for closing and it went great with a 6HP shop vac. I hooked my blower up for fun after, and there really wasn't much left but some spray. Anywho I wanted to do a write up for all the folks wondering if they could save a chunk of change and tackle their own closing...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Cetanorak]

I don't like snorkels as the ice rink will have a firm hold on them if it decides to shift. It might damage the return fitting.

Use Bungee plugs. I did not trust my duck plug and the ice pulled the cap mid winter, leaving the flimsy rubber duck lips exposed.

Blow though gizmos perform double duty. They allow you to clear the system without having to drain, then cap them and they'll absorb any skimmer ice expansion.

A compressor likely won't blow the whole system so you'll need a cyclone. If there is any iota of a leak anywhere the compressor loses its oomph. Imagine how long it takes to fill a pool float. Now imagine popping a pin hole in the float and it might never fill. My shop vac surprisingly blew my whole system from the skimmer, but I have dirt simple plumbing.

Closing with shop vac.

Today was the day for closing and it went great with a 6HP shop vac. I hooked my blower up for fun after, and there really wasn't much left but some spray. Anywho I wanted to do a write up for all the folks wondering if they could save a chunk of change and tackle their own closing...

www.troublefreepool.com

So are you saying that when using a Cyclone I could potentially blow water out of the entire system by way of a gizmo on a skimmer? That would also clear the return lines?

 

[Bperry]

So are you saying that when using a Cyclone I could potentially blow water out of the entire system by way of a gizmo on a skimmer? That would also clear the return lines?

You’de blow it out from the equipment pad and then when all the water is out, you shut off all the valves so water can’t travel back into them very far, airlocking them.

 

[Newdude]

So are you saying that when using a Cyclone I could potentially blow water out of the entire system by way of a gizmo on a skimmer? That would also clear the return lines?

A cyclone will blow the entire system from the skimmer. With a main/spa drain you'll need to cap the return lines, blow and airlock the drain(s) then put the bungee plugs in the returns and blow them.

The pump lid or check valve attachment posted earlier works great too.

 

[wedward]

As for advice - learn to tarp your equipment pad! There's no need to wrap every pipe but you need to find a good way to throw a decent weight painter's tarp (fabric or polymer) over the equipment and then place one or two contractor/painter lamps with 100W incandescent bulbs in them under the tarp. I do that every winter and while the air temp under the tarp is still cold, it's above freezing and warmer than the surrounding air. That is typically more than enough to keep the plumbing and equipment safe when the air temp goes below freezing. In the event of a hard freeze (teens overnight and only slightly above freezing during the day), that is when you want to drain everything and keep the lamps running 24/7 until the cold front passes.

I've used a tarp before but was wary of any heat source in there. If for some reason the temp is read at or above 32, the freeze protection would cutoff. Wouldn't that create a freeze issue for any area not fully tarped? I'm paranoid that my heat source would throw off the air temp sensor enough to cause a freeze somewhere in the system above ground. Am I overthinking that?

 

[Cetanorak]

I've used a tarp before but was wary of any heat source in there. If for some reason the temp is read at or above 32, the freeze protection would cutoff. Wouldn't that create a freeze issue for any area not fully tarped? I'm paranoid that my heat source would throw off the air temp sensor enough to cause a freeze somewhere in the system above ground. Am I overthinking that?

I thought the same thing and figured that if I ever added supplemental heat under a tarp that I'd manually program timer to run 24-7

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I've used a tarp before but was wary of any heat source in there. If for some reason the temp is read at or above 32, the freeze protection would cutoff. Wouldn't that create a freeze issue for any area not fully tarped? I'm paranoid that my heat source would throw off the air temp sensor enough to cause a freeze somewhere in the system above ground. Am I overthinking that?

You move the air temp sensor away from the tarp. My air temp sensor hangs off my automation panel and is not under the tarp. So it reads correctly. It has a 15ft cord so it can be moved anywhere.

 

[wedward]

Mine is tied on the filter inlet pipe. I should relocate it I think.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

The water temp sensor is plumbed into the pipe but the air temp sensor should be loose and not connected to any plumbing. It’s best to keep it away from walls to avoid false readings.

 

[Cetanorak]

You move the air temp sensor away from the tarp. My air temp sensor hangs off my automation panel and is not under the tarp. So it reads correctly. It has a 15ft cord so it can be moved anywhere.

I’ve a the black wire that drops down from my Intermatic timer the temperature probe? I think so (I purchased the home with the pool so I’m learning about its configuration as I go).

If so, is there any way to see what temperature the probe is detecting for calibrations sake? I’ll find a manual.

 

[jark87]

learn to tarp your equipment pad!

That’s been my “winterizing” method for years. Since the pump is running 24x7 with freeze protection, the motor generates some heat which is trapped under the tarp - in theory anyway. I put 3 layers of tarps over the equipment and exposed plumbing. Made it through 3 straight days/nights of lows around 10° and highs in the low 20s. It even worked through snowmaggedon a couple of years ago when we were in single digits for several days with power cycling off and on. I keep meaning to get some of those lights you mentioned, but still haven’t done it.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I’ve a the black wire that drops down from my Intermatic timer the temperature probe? I think so (I purchased the home with the pool so I’m learning about its configuration as I go).

If so, is there any way to see what temperature the probe is detecting for calibrations sake? I’ll find a manual.






View attachment 550585

I don’t know much about the Intermatic timers so you’ll have to grab a manual from the web and see what it says.

 

[wireform]

I’ve a the black wire that drops down from my Intermatic timer the temperature probe? I think so (I purchased the home with the pool so I’m learning about its configuration as I go).

If so, is there any way to see what temperature the probe is detecting for calibrations sake? I’ll find a manual.






View attachment 550585

I'm not convinced that's your temp sensor because a) the don't look Ike that ,b) why would it be routed by the timer. I think that looks like an electric eye/light sensor of sorts.

 

[HermanTX]

I'm not convinced that's your temp sensor because a) the don't look Ike that ,b) why would it be routed by the timer. I think that looks like an electric eye/light sensor of sorts.

The instructions on the left side (inside door) indicates "Control with Freeze Probe" My guess is that black thing hanging down is the probe. It is attached to the time to turn on the pump.

 

[FiveSheep]

Ignoring not keeping the valves open, I'm going to go out on a limb. I can't find this recommendation on any TFP thread. Being a TFP guide, I want to be careful with recommendations, but given the past couple of years of hard freezes in TX (etc.) it might be worth someone trying this solution and reporting back.

75$, 1500W pond heater from Tractor Supply. Put them in the pool, in front of the returns. If you have an autofill, put one in there too. Pics from OK. May keep temps of water through equipment high enough not to freeze...

I am in OKC and tried this with a 1000W livestock bucket heater, which has an exposed heating element protected by a metal cover. I suspended the heater in the skimmer. A meat thermometer placed in direct contact with the heating element never read over 34 degrees, presumably because of the volume of 32 degree water flowing through the skimmer, so I'm assuming that the heater did basically nothing to the water temperature of my pool.

 

[wireform]

It did do something for the pool perhaps, I wouldn't expect it to bring up the temp but possibly it prolonged the temps from getting lower.

 

[Bperry]

Yeah I'd love to see that. Thanks for the information.

I went out to do some tubing down the hill and saw that my cyclone adapter was not covered in snow, and I forgot to plug the cyclone port when I closed the pool. So maybe there’s some water in the pipes now.

I literally just bought the RJ-60 adapter and cut it in half and glued a tee in-between the ends. Ya gotta cut the right amount off so it’s the same length as the original. Then I included a 1.5” threaded fitting in the open spot which lets me screw in a 1.5” hose fitting from the cyclone.

 

[Cetanorak]

You’de blow it out from the equipment pad and then when all the water is out, you shut off all the valves so water can’t travel back into them very far, airlocking them.

Sorry to re-visit this earlier post. I'm still figuring out what I'd do in the event of a power outage. So you are saying that if I connect a cyclone to the inlet of my pump that I could blow out through Gizmos in skimmers and then airlock the main drains AND the returns??? Once air is coming out of all of the returns and the mains drains, by simply closing the valves for each at the pad it would airlock them all??

Thank you for explaining!

 

[Newdude]

Sorry to re-visit this earlier post.

Please ask as many times as you need. We literally come here to help people. It might as well be you.

So you are saying that if I connect a cyclone to the inlet of my pump that I could blow out through Gizmos in skimmers and then airlock the main drains AND the returns??? Once air is coming out of all of the returns and the mains drains, by simply closing the valves for each at the pad it would airlock them all??

Yes and no. A main drain airlock keeps the majority of the line empty as its upward pipe as soon as it gets to the side of the pool. If return and skimmer lines werent plugged, they would fill the downward section by the pool wall, and the horizontal section to the equipment pad. It would only be air locked at the upward pipe to the equipment pad, which in TX, would likely be below the frost line. (So it would work even though it let most of the water back in) In a 2 week freeze you only need to be a couple inches down.

To keep the pipes empty, you need to cap the skimmers and returns. (Gizzmos/bungee plugs). There's several ways to skin this cat and one isn't really more work than the other.

Blowing the pipes at the equipment pad just below ground level is likely all you'll ever need, but if going through the trouble, i'd just blow them empty and never second guess it.

 

[Bperry]

Please ask as many times as you need. We literally come here to help people. It might as well be you.

Yes and no. A main drain airlock keeps the majority of the line empty as its upward pipe as soon as it gets to the side of the pool. If return and skimmer lines werent plugged, they would fill the downward section by the pool wall, and the horizontal section to the equipment pad. It would only be air locked at the upward pipe to the equipment pad, which in TX, would likely be below the frost line. (So it would work even though it let most of the water back in) In a 2 week freeze you only need to be a couple inches down.

To keep the pipes empty, you need to cap the skimmers and returns. (Gizzmos/bungee plugs). There's several ways to skin this cat and one isn't really more work than the other.

Blowing the pipes at the equipment pad just below ground level is likely all you'll ever need, but if going through the trouble, i'd just blow them empty and never second guess it.

This is all true.

@Cetanorak, remember the cyclone requires power so it won’t work during a power outage.