Another metal staining thread

Jul 21, 2017
58
McIntosh FL
Hi all! This is my first post here so hopefully I've put it in the right place. I've been searching around this forum for a while and have pieced together some information from various posts. I'm sure I'm missing the one (or many) that will deal with my specific issue and situation but hopefully I can get some clear answers with this post.

Im a relatively new pool owner (bought this house a year and a half ago), with a 20k gallon in-ground fiberglass pool with a cartridge filter. The pool is equipped with a saltwater system, though I haven't been using it due to an error message on the box and the idea from the previous owners that it had malfunctioned somehow. Not sure if any more specifics needed but I'll fill in if needed.

I never had had any problems with metal/mineral staining until earlier this year, then woke up one morning to a brown stain coating the walls and floor that I'd not noticed before and over time it's just gotten worse. The water is clear, but it's all stuck to the sides. Prior to this I'd had a lot of algae problems so I had been keeping chlorine high, and from what I've read here that may have triggered the metals out of solution and onto the walls. My town also had a little hiccup with their water supply, so I'm still unsure if there is an increased metal content now as opposed to what it was before. I need to buy a test kit and test the hose water. I've now gotten the regular maintenance down to weekly acid addition to keep the pH at 7.2, and the addition of 2 gallons of liquid chlorine. The pool sits under a huge oak tree, so I need this amount of chlorine to keep the organic stains at bay.

In any case, I used an ascorbic acid powder from the pool store but in my ignorance at the time, didn't use anything else to go with it so when I raised the chlorine back up (to a relatively high level to keep the algae and organic stains at bay), the mineral stains returned. Still totally clear water, just stained surfaces.

Now that ive done quite a bit more research, my question is: once I use the stain remover again, I somehow have to get the metals out of the water unless I want to continuously add a sequestering agent from now until forever. I've seen a few scenarios suggested, and from this I get the idea that I need to do this -->

1) stain remover, in conjunction with something like Pool Refresh which is supposed to chelate the metals into a sufficient size to be filtered out. Followed by a sequestering agent to tie up any lingering metal ions. I've also seen it suggested to use something like a MetalTrap hose filter to remove as much as possible prior to it going into the pool, and even the use of pillow stuffing to help filter out what's in solution. Several posts have also talked about clarifiers, are these the same as Pool Refresh?

I wouid ideally just like to have a clear clear plan and some input on which combination of chemicals and methods I need to employ to remove the metals from the water as best as I can without having to drain and start over, if this is possible. TIA for the help, I'm sure my pool and my wallet will be thankful!!
 
:wave: Welcome to TFP!!!

First, I think if you have better (any?) testing ability, you would not have to be trying to keep the FC so high. Are you only adding chlorine once a week? Because that is not really what we teach here. Perhaps with a better regiment, you could keep the FC lower and not have as much metal problems.

To keep the stains from the walls though, you must continually add a sequestrant ... unless you can replace the water with some that does not have metal in it.

I am not an expert with metals, but I think we might need to step back and get the chemistry understood and correct and then deal with the metal issues.
 
+1 on Jason's comment.

Metal management is kinda an "advanced" class and you first need to have a firm handle on TFP testing and management methods to get a successful plan together.

So, that would mean having a FAS/DPD drop kit to accurately measure your FC when its in the higher ranges (and lower ranges when doing a metal treatment.) The two recommended kits are Taylor K2006 or TFTest kit 100 (better value) available at TFTestkits.net.

Then post up a full set of readings like this:

FC
cC
pH
cH
cYA

Please also add your pool details to your signature, and the make and model of your swg, which I'm sure we could help you recover.

Re: Metal Management

I have opinions about the efficacy of some of the products you mentioned, and have over the years experimented with a number of approaches. Metal Trap is expensive and only partly effective dependent of flow rate (has to be very very slow) and Pool Refresh is not one of the sequestrants TFP has come to recommend. I've encountered difficulties assisting people when they've used that product (among many others).

Filtering the water with something like Polyfill if it has no tint is not likely productive enough to keep you sequestrant-free due to insoluable iron, which just passes right through. Filtering with Metal Trap, even though its green sand, will also (according to experiments logged on this forum) not likely get you to a low enough concentration to avoid sequestrant either. The most success seen with any poster I've dealt with was down to about .4 ppm, which is above stain level.

I actually also no longer personally use the AA treatment for a variety of reasons and rarely recommend it except as a method of last resort because too many people end up doing it incorrectly. But I can assist you in doing it correctly if you elect to do it again.

Lately, people had success trying something I did a few years back inspired by another poster, which is using one of our recommended sequestrants, Metal Magic by Proteam, as a stain lifter as well. If it works, you can skip AA entirely. Here's how to test if it will work on your stain: http://www.proteampoolcare.com/images/uploads/MetalMagicSpongeTest.pdf

Those are just initial thoughts, but if you can post back with specifics from a good test kit etc. we can gve fuller assistance and recommendations.

Eg. If you KNEW the source was ad hoc, dilution via partial water change plus MM treatment might be most cost effective route.

Treatments also work better if your ch is at least 200.

Etc. Hope that helps you get started on a plan the devil is in the details on metals ;)
 
Thank you both for the quick replies. I am admittedly new and inexperienced at this, and obviously not completely up to speed yet like I should be, so I appreciate your patience and help! The house that came with the pool is about 120 years old so there was a sizable amount of work to be done there and on the property when I moved in that took priority, and I live alone and was also in the process of starting my own business, so the pool sat on the back burner until recently. Originally I paid a pool service to maintain it, but I had even more problems with it then than I do now with my super limited knowledge on what I'm supposed to be doing. It was constantly green and eventually had to be drained and refilled (according to the pool guy). He did that for free since he couldn't seem to keep it from turning into a pond in the first place, then I never saw or heard from him again. So I took the crash course in the most basic things and have just been trying to keep it at least halfway manageable since then. The people at the pool store did actually help at first, but I've come to realize that there are better options (like you guys).

I definitely have some homework to do so I'll get to work on that and report back. Thank you again!
 
Hey guys, I know this thread is old but I'm hoping someone has some experience and can shed some light.

As suggested in this thread I ordered some Proteam metal magic and am giving it a go right now. I used 4 bottles to start and so far it seems to be doing well. The water is fairly cloudy from the MM doing its job, but I can see there are still some faint stains left (in the area that had the oldest and worst stains to start with). I'm wondering if anyone has used ascorbic acid AND MM together. The AA to help with getting the stains off and the MM to help with the binding and filtering once they're in solution. Or will the AA interfere with the MM's ability to bind up the metals?

Im debating just doing another dose of MM once the cloud clears and I can better evaluate the situation or just going for the AA with a dose of MM. Either way I have to order more, so I'm hoping for some insight. TIA!
 
I don’t think AA will interfere with Metal Magic but keep in mind that adding AA may also cloud the pool. Whenever I used to do AA treatments, the pool would cloud for several days.

Also, AA will deplete your free chlorine and your pool may have a high chlorine demand for several days until the AA is gone. You don’t want to shock the pool after AA, just keep an eye of the FC level, and bring it back slowly so you don’t risk high chlorine re-staining the pool surfaces.
 
I don’t think AA will interfere with Metal Magic but keep in mind that adding AA may also cloud the pool. Whenever I used to do AA treatments, the pool would cloud for several days.

Also, AA will deplete your free chlorine and your pool may have a high chlorine demand for several days until the AA is gone. You don’t want to shock the pool after AA, just keep an eye of the FC level, and bring it back slowly so you don’t risk high chlorine re-staining the pool surfaces.

ok this is exactly what I figured. I have a significant amount of clouding going on right now that's going away much slower than I'd hoped, so I'm waiting for that to clear so I can really tell how much staining is left. It's a ton better than I started with, so it may even be tolerable for the time being but I'll be able to tell once the dust settles a little.
 
Just keep an eye on your FC like a hawk to make sure it doesn't dip quickly. Keep it on the high end to ensure that the clouding is nothing more than the MM in the pool and not the start of any algae. You're probably fine though. My advice is more important if you actually use AA with the MM cause the AA will burn through the FC very, very quickly afterwards for several days.
 
Thanks for the advice! (And for the link to the spot scrubber in my other post!)

I'm still waiting for the cloud to clear to see if the little bit of staining that's left will be enough to notice or be bothered by. It's hugely improved from where I started though. It just seems to be filtering out soooo slowly.. in hindsight I probably could have used less MM, but live and learn lol. I've been brushing the sides down every day and still getting a bit of white coming off so I also think the MM is still working on some of what's left on the walls. So it's probably that it's just continually making more cloudiness and not so much that it's not filtering out. I had a small air leak in the pump and it took forever and some fenagling to get it primed last time so I'm waiting for a new o-ring and air release valve to get here before I take it apart and look at/clean the filter. Should be here in the next few days. In the meantime I'm half tempted to just turn it off and try to let some of the dust settle to the bottom and vacuum it up directly. Does that work or will it just float around and not settle?
 

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