Another Hybrid Pool Question

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wpparrish

0
Jan 4, 2017
14
Overland Park
Hello TFP,

We bought a new house with what we now know is a hybrid pool in the KC area. I've read through the threads on this board and they've been very helpful, the problem is I can;t find anyone to deliver what I believe needs to be done.

The pool is covered so I can't attach pics, but the issue is the concrete is pitting in some places and is making the pool to difficult to maintain. It's also clear the fiberglass is aging as the gelcoat (I assume it's a gelcoat) has a cracked finish throughout. The pool is not leaking as far as I know, but it's time to renovate it and make it whole so we can start from scratch.

It appears the preferred method to fix is to repair it as it was built. Plaster the bottom and re-finish the fiberglass. Everyone is happy to fix the concrete, but no one will touch the fiberglass and they don't know anyone who will. Some of these boards say the pools perfectly sound if repaired as is.

Plenty of people have tried to tell me to seal it with an epoxy paint (sounds like a terrible fix), whatever Mid-America is selling (glass coat), or put a liner in. It seems to me the only viable fixes are repair as is or put a liner in. Had a few small providers offer to install liners but I was afraid it would leak if it wasn't a full expert. Called the leading local provider and he said I should just fill it and enjoy my new patio! Thanks for the help. My questions are:

1. Does anyone know a reputable provider that fixes these or specifically does fiberglass renovation?

2. People on these boards say that vinyl CAN work, but the guy said they won't because these pools don't have a "bead receiver"? How are other hybrid owners doing this?

3. Any other advice to get this thing renovated?

Appreciate your insights!

Will
 
Brian - Is this pool an Aquabright candidate?
 
Had not come across AquaBright yet. Intriguing after doing some research. I Googled "What does thermo-polymer mean" and the answer meant less to me than the actual question. What is the surface it produces? Also, and maybe this isn't a question I should be asking, but with each "suggested" fix I get I like to know what does this surface do to tell me it needs to be fixed next time? Crack, chalk, pit, etc... I guess if I understood what the surface was I could figure that out myself.

I am also assuming good solution= extremely expensive...maybe I'm just getting a little pessimistic. Finally heard back from a guy who fixes these pools in Omaha. He does the two part epoxy finish that I think I'd prefer to stay away from because it sounds to me like a fancy word for paint. He was out of Omaha and didn't want to travel but offered me some additional contacts and a few ideas. One was a 60 MIL vinyl liner. Said he had seen one in a pool recently from merlin and that he thought it looked like a pretty awesome solution for hybrids?
 
bmoreswim said:
Brian - Is this pool an Aquabright candidate?
Click to expand...

It sure sounds like the ideal pool for AquaBright.

Will,

Give these guys a call a call and have them take a look:

Swim Things Inc.
3010 W. 40 Highway
Blue Springs, Missouri 64015

816-224-2600
888-242-7946
Above Ground Inground Swimming Pools in Kansast City MO | Swim Things Incorporated

Hopefully you are close enough. It sure looks like you are to me but I'm not familiar with the area.

Epoxy paints do not last
Epoxies are not UV stable and break down quickly
Liners...probably going to be a tough retrofit
AquaBright - Seen it done several times on hybrid pools but I have no firsthand experience as everything out here is concrete. Probably more insight can be gathered from Swimcmp (here on the forum) on whether or not it can be done. His company:

Central MO Pools
660-263-4855
Home | Central Missouri Pools

Pictures would really help but I understand your situation. Best of luck to you.
 
Yes this pool is the perfect candidate for Aquabright. The installer needs to be careful because the fiberglass could have wood stiffeners in it and they can swell as the heat is applied. We did an old Polynesian pools that had vinyl liner in it originally and it did this as we applied the Aquabrite.
 
I had the same thought as Brian (but I'm biased! :)

I recently got Aquabright, and continue to be a fan of it.

What is it like? It is a cross between plaster and liner from a softness perspective. Not nearly as soft and "cuttable" as a vinyl liner, but a softer feel than plaster. If you were to figure out how to peel some off, it is slightly flexible, what might be similar to a very thick 2 liter coke bottle. In other words, you can fold it over and it doesn't break. Since it is adhered to plaster, it still feels firm in a macro sense.

From a coarseness or feel perspective, the smoothness can be varied, from a fine non slip to a fairly smooth slightly toppled surface. Neither has a hard abrasive nature because it is basically just the amount of additional heat applies. Apply a lot of heat, and it smooths out to something similar to orange peel. Smooth, but a bit bumpy from a flatness perspective.

Coarse enough to not be slippery and uncomfortable, bit smooth enough that my girlfriend no longer complains that her baiting suits get "pilled".

In summary, it is a nice compromise between non slip, and smooth feel.

It is nicer than plaster in any way I can evaluate it (at least as far as I have considered. Having an inert pool surface (well 99%) made balancing my water much easier. You already had that advantage with fiberglass, so if you switch to plaster, you may not be as happy as you might predict because plaster is most definitely not inert.

I now use about a quart of MA per month (it will be more in the summer for sure). This is about less than 1/4 to 1/8 as much as I needed for plaster. While this is not all attributable to AB, the water is far easier to get to settle and it has been stable from the start.

And durable. When being applied, we needed to remove some to fix substrate. It was quite difficult to remove a small patch with an angle grinder. While the angle grinder effected it, it is so tough that the grinder wound up taking excessive elbow grease to remove even a small area. If you want something that is easily removable, this is not it.

In summary, the inertness of a liner pool, with the strength and toughness of a plaster pool, and a semi smooth surface that is comfortable, but not too slippery.
 
Thanks all. The AuquaBright guy came out last week. He says they did a hybrid near here with great results last year but that our fiberglass walls were in a little worse shape. He was connecting with the original manufacturer to see if they thought the walls could withstand the heat created during application. Will keep you in the loop on their response and the AuquBright quote price for future inquiries in this area.

Separate but interesting, we met another couple who's parents have the same Ft. Wayne hybrid we have. Since they are the original owners of the pool they knew who installed it and called them directly. Apparently the company told them they'd ship them the factory gelcoated walls free of charge, but would not provide any labor to do any repairs. Not sure if that's a solution or not, but it sounds like one assuming anyone knows how to remove and repair those. I have a call out to them.
 
To replace the wall panels is a major undertaking. Basically you are looking at tearing out the existing pool and building it back. The bottom of your current wall is embedded in the concrete floor. I have been a FT. Wayne dealer for 35 years and didn't know that they had a hybrid pool.
 
swimcmp said:
To replace the wall panels is a major undertaking. Basically you are looking at tearing out the existing pool and building it back. The bottom of your current wall is embedded in the concrete floor. I have been a FT. Wayne dealer for 35 years and didn't know that they had a hybrid pool.
Click to expand...

Apparently it was a thing back in the day. I have one. circu somewhere in the 60's (home was built 1964,) not sure if pool was added later though. Just bought the house several years ago and did some work on it and was able to swim 3 years, now back at square one. Click on my previous posts to see ours.

Thinking on using sider-crete on bottom this year, and trying to figure out the walls. (previously patched cement and painted whole pool with 2 part epoxy) May be interested in contacting whoever installed (if they are still around) for the above free* walls and starting over as you said. Seems like they lasted a fairly long time. Although, neighbors told me pool had not been used for 10 or more years (just left like a swamp-ewww) I think that is why the pool paint didn't last, as we only did one coat and imo was like unprimed walls when you paint them. Pool people that were hired to paint abandoned the job and my daughter finished (she's 29.) I also believe it was improperly prepared as they only pressure washed before painting.
 

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wpparrish said:
Thanks all. The AuquaBright guy came out last week. He says they did a hybrid near here with great results last year but that our fiberglass walls were in a little worse shape. He was connecting with the original manufacturer to see if they thought the walls could withstand the heat created during application. Will keep you in the loop on their response and the AuquBright quote price for future inquiries in this area.

Separate but interesting, we met another couple who's parents have the same Ft. Wayne hybrid we have. Since they are the original owners of the pool they knew who installed it and called them directly. Apparently the company told them they'd ship them the factory gelcoated walls free of charge, but would not provide any labor to do any repairs. Not sure if that's a solution or not, but it sounds like one assuming anyone knows how to remove and repair those. I have a call out to them.
Click to expand...

Let me know what you find out. My walls are in pretty good shape. The coping is cracked, but we plan on tearing out the old deck at some point and using pavers so will solve that then. IF we can get this dinosaur in better shape.
 
There were three main companies that built fiberglass walls for a hybrid situation. One was Polynesian and they went out of business years ago, probably in the 80's. They did a lot of fiberglass with low hung vinyl liners too. Another was Swimcraft, they are still in business today making panels. They were and are probably the largest manufacturer of these panels. The third one escapes my mind, but pretty positive Ft. Wayne is not it. Ft Wayne primarily did steel wall and then is large in the polymer wall with vinyl liners.
 
Quick update. So the AquaBrite guy says he spoke with his manufacturer and that they don't recommend them to do the job because of the blistering on the walls. I don' t really recall much blistering but he said there was plenty of it when he checked it. So apparently that is no longer an option. I also spoke with someone at Ft. Wayne (Latham) pools who said I should just get the fiberglass repaired. Said it would be easy gave me two websites and told me to enter my zip code and it would give me names of people who could do the work...no results! I live in KC so it;s not like I'm in a small town!

It sounds like my only real option is the Mid-America Inter-glass system which is far more than we wanted to spend. It's been quoted at $25,000 for the full job. Not only is it more than we wanted to spend, but the guy from Mid-America has actually made me want to do anything other than give him my money. When I tried to get the price down a little he said "no, because you have no other option. We are the only option to fix that type of pool. If you can't afford it keep the pool covered until you can.". As someone who has spent their entire life in sales and sales leadership I dislike his approach so much I'm considering going with the cheap short term fix of painting it and then dealing with it in 3-5 years. I suppose painting it now would perhaps make the AquaBrite an option again since it would get rid of the blistering?

Anyone have better ideas? We're out of options here!
 
wpparrish said:
Quick update. So the AquaBrite guy says he spoke with his manufacturer and that they don't recommend them to do the job because of the blistering on the walls. I don' t really recall much blistering but he said there was plenty of it when he checked it. So apparently that is no longer an option. I also spoke with someone at Ft. Wayne (Latham) pools who said I should just get the fiberglass repaired. Said it would be easy gave me two websites and told me to enter my zip code and it would give me names of people who could do the work...no results! I live in KC so it;s not like I'm in a small town!

It sounds like my only real option is the Mid-America Inter-glass system which is far more than we wanted to spend. It's been quoted at $25,000 for the full job. Not only is it more than we wanted to spend, but the guy from Mid-America has actually made me want to do anything other than give him my money. When I tried to get the price down a little he said "no, because you have no other option. We are the only option to fix that type of pool. If you can't afford it keep the pool covered until you can.". As someone who has spent their entire life in sales and sales leadership I dislike his approach so much I'm considering going with the cheap short term fix of painting it and then dealing with it in 3-5 years. I suppose painting it now would perhaps make the AquaBrite an option again since it would get rid of the blistering?

Anyone have better ideas? We're out of options here!
Click to expand...

I am going with the paint option on the fiberglass part. The only blistering we had was at the waterline, so I am going to sand that down with an angle grinder and after it is painted 2 coats I am going with a stick on applique border hoping it will take some of the heat from the sun off of the paint which I think is what caused the blistering on the 3rd summer. I figure I can replace it at least once before having to repaint down the road. I am following the recommendations on prepping the bottom for the sider-crete for the bottom and I think we will get good results with it. I am going with Platinum Ultra from Supreme Paints. If I can get 5-8 years I will be happy.

Now if I can get a reasonable quote on repairing the other jet (they replaced corroded and broken metal pipe with pvc on the other one.) Also hoping my skimmer doesn't need replaced (although I can see by concrete that it was replaced at least once before.) I had a water loss of an inch or two a day last summer. I noticed I had to keep the hose in the skimmer on low to keep the pool pump draining when I emptied the pool with the vacuum hose down on the deep end. So I am thinking there is a leak around the top of the basket. Is it possible to have a leak around the gasket causing this much leakage?
 
Sand down the blisters. Find a high quality fiberglass that doesn't use epoxy resin. Repair the blisters and then see if you can apply ecoFinish. I would like to know who he is talking to at ecoFinish, we have never been told we couldn't do a fiberglass wall. We have been told that blisters need to be fixed first.
 
Maybe this should go on the general board, but has anyone gone with the inter-glass option for a pool renovation. They have an impressive list of references from corporate clients, but I can fine shockingly few discussion online from residential customers which has me concerned that we're the only people on earth who consider this option for our home? Saw some inquiries on a previous thread from lees Summit, MO and Stillwell, KS, but not follow up from the original poster.
 
Had a customer ask me about it and from what I found it is a proprietary system from a company in the Kansas City area. So not sure how much information you will find on it. Until the other day I had never even heard of it.
 
I believe there is an installer near me in the Los Angeles area that installs that product or something similar. My understanding is you are basically laying up a fiberglass finish in a gunite pool shell. If that's the case, it doesn't make sense to me to have two dissimilar rigid surfaces with different expansion and contraction coefficients and expect long-term durability. The warranty and track record of installs does seem to indicate that several pools have been successful.
 
Can someone re-explain why I can't just re-plaster the concrete and install a vinyl liner just over the fiberglass walls?

- - - Updated - - -

Also not sure if I ever had anyone respond to the question about doing a full vinyl liner as an option. Plenty in here say they can do it, but two of the people I spoke to locally said it can't be done because there is no bead receiver?
 
You can replaster the concrete but you can't put a vinyl liner over just the walls. There is not a way to attach the vinyl at the top of the wall or at the bottom of the wall and create a water proof seal.

The next best option is to put a vinyl liner in. To do this you will have to install some sort of bead receiver at the top of the wall. You will have to cut concrete deck and dig down to install vinyl liner returns. Your main drain won't be usable unless it is a vinyl main drain to begin with.
 

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