Algae issues and chlorine problems
- Thread starter ndakotaninja
- Start date
I've been using the "Pool Life Stabilizer and Conditioner" which is supposed to raise the CYA levels. I'm surprised that with so little water replacement (not technically replacement, but evaporation/refilling/rain) I'd have lost 16+ lbs of stabilizer. I have another 8 lbs I bought to raise the CYA after the SLAM is complete. Should I look into buying a different brand or a different chemical altogether? I know that 'we don't trust pool store testing', however my testing has confirmed their results.
I'm grasping for straws, just suggesting anything that could be a possibility. I'm losing chemicals somehow and no one seems to know why. Meanwhile my crystal clear, warm pool is taunting me that I can't swim in it because the OCLT doesn't pass.
I'm grasping for straws, just suggesting anything that could be a possibility. I'm losing chemicals somehow and no one seems to know why. Meanwhile my crystal clear, warm pool is taunting me that I can't swim in it because the OCLT doesn't pass.
What is FC & CC?
Your pool is crystal clear and warm?
You can swim up to SLAM FC level, but it will/could prolong the SLAM process. Take a good shower after and wear old swimsuits.
While you're in there, scrub or brush something
btw, if it was my pool, I would add about 4 #'s of CYA now via sock method.
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Sometimes CYA disappears during SLAM's. Test and adjust accordingly.
Your pool is crystal clear and warm?
You can swim up to SLAM FC level, but it will/could prolong the SLAM process. Take a good shower after and wear old swimsuits.
While you're in there, scrub or brush something
btw, if it was my pool, I would add about 4 #'s of CYA now via sock method.
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Sometimes CYA disappears during SLAM's. Test and adjust accordingly.
My CYA was <20 to start before I started SLAMing. I was thinking I'd start adding the CYA anyways just to make sure that it actually increases when I test it, and because I'll need to raise it anyways. They said for the SW pool I'd want to keep my FC at 5ppm anyways, so during the day it sits around 7-8 until I test it and raise it back to 10. After work (~6 hours of sunlight) it sits around 5 or so, and it's nice and warm and clear, so I've thought about jumping in for a bit before I raise it up, but I honestly didn't think it'd take this long considering how clear it was to begin with.
My FC I'm keeping at 10, the CC has been around 0-.5 since day 2 of the SLAM. The most the FC has dropped is down to 3 when I was gone all day long. Most 2-3 hour periods that I've been testing during the day it's been going to about 7-8.5. Overnight, it ranges, but it's been dropping down to 5-6 just about every night.
For the 'sock method', just put CYA into a sock, tie it up, and drop it into the skimmer basket until it dissolves?
My FC I'm keeping at 10, the CC has been around 0-.5 since day 2 of the SLAM. The most the FC has dropped is down to 3 when I was gone all day long. Most 2-3 hour periods that I've been testing during the day it's been going to about 7-8.5. Overnight, it ranges, but it's been dropping down to 5-6 just about every night.
For the 'sock method', just put CYA into a sock, tie it up, and drop it into the skimmer basket until it dissolves?
- May 22, 2013
- 2,796
- Pool Size
- 12000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Yes but it's best to go out there and knead that sock for a bit here and there. The more you wring it out like a wet wash cloth and let it soak up some more water and squeeze it the sooner it will dissolve and get into the water.
I think I'm going to continue the SLAM through tonight and call it quits. There has been no change for the last 5 or 6 days now, no dead or live algae to be seen. If I get my chemical levels back to normal and find that algae starts growing again because there is something wrong still that's just not being killed off for some reason, then I'll SLAM again with a higher FC concentration.
Since no one seems to know why my OCLT keeps failing, or have any other thoughts to try (I've closed off the spa, repositioned the eyeballs for different water flows, brush every day, including ladders/railings/light), I feel like I'm wasting my time/money now. I did see a noticeable improvement after the first 2-3 days, and was getting dead algae grouping up on the pool floor to be vacuumed up. I suppose that my FC will drop overnights still, so I'll just have to watch my system and adjust my SWG as needed to compensate. I'm going on vacation next week, so I won't be able to continue the SLAM anyways, and I need to get my chemical levels up before I go or my FC will be zero when I get back and possibly be growing algae again.
If anyone has any final thoughts or things to try, feel free to chime in. Doesn't seem the SLAM really worked for me...by that I mean it cleared up my problem, but I'm still left with the problem of disappearing chlorine, which means it can always drop low again and allow algae growth in the future. I've also still got the problem of disappearing CYA, so I'm interested in seeing how the next week goes as I add more CYA back in and get my SWG %% worked out.
Since no one seems to know why my OCLT keeps failing, or have any other thoughts to try (I've closed off the spa, repositioned the eyeballs for different water flows, brush every day, including ladders/railings/light), I feel like I'm wasting my time/money now. I did see a noticeable improvement after the first 2-3 days, and was getting dead algae grouping up on the pool floor to be vacuumed up. I suppose that my FC will drop overnights still, so I'll just have to watch my system and adjust my SWG as needed to compensate. I'm going on vacation next week, so I won't be able to continue the SLAM anyways, and I need to get my chemical levels up before I go or my FC will be zero when I get back and possibly be growing algae again.
If anyone has any final thoughts or things to try, feel free to chime in. Doesn't seem the SLAM really worked for me...by that I mean it cleared up my problem, but I'm still left with the problem of disappearing chlorine, which means it can always drop low again and allow algae growth in the future. I've also still got the problem of disappearing CYA, so I'm interested in seeing how the next week goes as I add more CYA back in and get my SWG %% worked out.
How close were the last OCLT results?
You could try taking it to mustard algae SLAM level tonight.
It's not that the SLAM didn't work, it is just not finished. The purpose of passing all three tests is to confirm the end of the process. Please give it a few more days.... I'd hate to see you so close and stop.
You could try taking it to mustard algae SLAM level tonight.
It's not that the SLAM didn't work, it is just not finished. The purpose of passing all three tests is to confirm the end of the process. Please give it a few more days.... I'd hate to see you so close and stop.
- May 22, 2013
- 2,796
- Pool Size
- 12000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I would take a CYA reading and then add enough to get closer to 30. I would go ahead and do a through backwash and drop that 8 lbs in and work that sock for the 10 or 15 minutes it takes to get it dissolved and into the system and then get however much more the calculator says you need. REMEMBER .. it may have dissolved but some of it is still in the filter dissolving too and if you backwash it never makes it into the pool. They say it can take up to a week. Try not to backwash for as much of that time as you can safely.
Maybe you want to try something different like the HTH stabilizer, Walmart, Homedepot ... Don't know if it would make a difference.
With what you call water replacement you don't lose CYA. You lose CYA when you remove water with CYA in it out of your pool. Refilling and rain only dilute the CYA that is in the pool so the CYA level might drop a bit from testing it with a low water level compared to a very full one but the physical CYA is the same.
With evaporation you loose water but not CYA. Again the water level decreases but that would just make the CYA a little stronger in the remaining water.
With backwashing you are tossing out the CYA with the pool water every time you do it. Since you are likely backwashing a lot during the slam that might be where it is going.
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- May 22, 2013
- 2,796
- Pool Size
- 12000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Finally found the "pool life" stabilizer and it looks to be the same as anyone elses stabilizer. It's sold through dealers so I'm guessing that means pool store like BioGard products. The HTH would be less $$ for the same product and maybe easier to get depending on how close the pool store is.
That's the same understanding I have about CYA levels, kiss4afrog. As water evaporates/it rains, the CYA should remain the same. I thought about cleaning the filters today, then focusing on raising the CYA. As far as backwashing goes, my system isn't set up to do that (do cartridge filter systems usually have backwashing capabilities?). As far as the previous CYA, I had let it dissolve for a little over 2 weeks before I had to clean my filter for the first time. I assumed it would have been dissolved by then, as most people have said 'a week'. I actually purchased new filters just before I started SLAMing, and the water was already fairly clear (though the first few days I was vacuuming up dead algae from the bottom), so I haven't cleaned it since I started.
@butterfly, I've done the OCLT the last 5 nights. I've had the FC at 10 (or 11) every night before I went to bed. ~7 hours later when I tested it, it has been down to 5-7.5 or so. I've tested it before the sun's out and after the sun is down, so there shouldn't be any loss there. Last night's test it went from 10 to 7.5.
What levels FC are required for the mustard algae shock? I assume I can do the OCLT tonight with it at that elevated level as well, right?
@butterfly, I've done the OCLT the last 5 nights. I've had the FC at 10 (or 11) every night before I went to bed. ~7 hours later when I tested it, it has been down to 5-7.5 or so. I've tested it before the sun's out and after the sun is down, so there shouldn't be any loss there. Last night's test it went from 10 to 7.5.
What levels FC are required for the mustard algae shock? I assume I can do the OCLT tonight with it at that elevated level as well, right?
PoolMath will give you MA SLAM # based on your CYA level.
Yes, you can do the OCLT.
Yes, you can do the OCLT.
- May 22, 2013
- 2,796
- Pool Size
- 12000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Sorry, not paying attention. Had my head in the sand (filter). :jocolor:
Alright, cartridges cleaned (they weren't bad at all yet), CYA being added via sock (good suggestion on squeezing it to get it worked out), and chlorine levels raised to 14 (I knew I saw it somewhere, forgot it was at the bottom of PoolMath). I also got in before I shocked it and swam some as I was sweating up a storm from cleaning and scrubbing the pool. I found several areas of the wall that still felt slimy that I've missed (areas that it's hard to get good leverage to really scrub it well). I cleaned those up, so hopefully tomorrow I'll see further dead algae and better results.
Nice Job! Your chlorine is still being used up by something overnight. Once you finish it off you'll be good to go. Good luck tonight.
So I did the OCLT Thursday night, lost too much, but assumed it was because of the storms we had + the scrubbing I did that day. On friday, CYA levels were between 20 and 30, so I adjusted my FC as needed to continue the Mustard Algae shock level, and thoroughly scrubbed, vacuumed, and skimmed the pool. OCLT Friday night saw it drop from 17 to 14.5 again, so scrubbed again yesterday, continued the higher level shock. Last night, it was sitting at 16.5, so I did the OCLT again, this morning it was at 11.5.
So my first question is (and I thought of this today after I was surprised it had still dropped so much), does adding CYA lower the FC? The only thing I can think of is that I do have a sock-full of CYA in the skimmer right now, so the levels likely went up more overnight, and could have changed the FC. If these 2 are not directly related, then onto my second question.
Why is the SLAM process not working? As far as we've discussed, I've done everything correctly, I've had my system running nonstop for 2 weeks, my filter is clean, I've maintained a high level of chlorine nonstop including (almost) 4 days of mustard algae shock levels. As I raised my CYA in the last week, I've also increased my FC levels appropriately, according to PoolMath. I've vacuumed, scrubbed, and cleaned just about everything there is to clean to get rid of any algae. The pool itself looks great, crystal clear and sparkling. Yet if the OCLT fails, there's got to be something wrong.
So what do I try once the SLAM doesn't work? I didn't add more chlorine this morning because I planned to be done today. Obviously the SLAM isn't working so I'm not wasting more time on it until I have a new plan that may work. I figured I would level the chlorine levels drop again today back to normalish and get in and feel around the walls again for slime. If I still find more (though I thoroughly cleaned these patches on Thursday/Friday, so it should be clear), I can scrub those again.
My whole reason for doing the SLAM was that I was losing chlorine frequently (dropping to near zero every day), but it seems that was also mostly due to a CYA level of 0 (somehow the 16+ lbs had disappeared). I am raising that back to normal, so I figured I'd get my levels all in range, and see if the system can maintain those levels for a few days in a row, not running the system/SWG 24/7. If so, I'm in better shape than before. Here are my last test numbers from yesterday in case they help.
pH 7.5
FC 16.5
CC <.5
TA 150
CH 350
CYA 30ish (still have ~1lb in the skimmer sock)
So my first question is (and I thought of this today after I was surprised it had still dropped so much), does adding CYA lower the FC? The only thing I can think of is that I do have a sock-full of CYA in the skimmer right now, so the levels likely went up more overnight, and could have changed the FC. If these 2 are not directly related, then onto my second question.
Why is the SLAM process not working? As far as we've discussed, I've done everything correctly, I've had my system running nonstop for 2 weeks, my filter is clean, I've maintained a high level of chlorine nonstop including (almost) 4 days of mustard algae shock levels. As I raised my CYA in the last week, I've also increased my FC levels appropriately, according to PoolMath. I've vacuumed, scrubbed, and cleaned just about everything there is to clean to get rid of any algae. The pool itself looks great, crystal clear and sparkling. Yet if the OCLT fails, there's got to be something wrong.
So what do I try once the SLAM doesn't work? I didn't add more chlorine this morning because I planned to be done today. Obviously the SLAM isn't working so I'm not wasting more time on it until I have a new plan that may work. I figured I would level the chlorine levels drop again today back to normalish and get in and feel around the walls again for slime. If I still find more (though I thoroughly cleaned these patches on Thursday/Friday, so it should be clear), I can scrub those again.
My whole reason for doing the SLAM was that I was losing chlorine frequently (dropping to near zero every day), but it seems that was also mostly due to a CYA level of 0 (somehow the 16+ lbs had disappeared). I am raising that back to normal, so I figured I'd get my levels all in range, and see if the system can maintain those levels for a few days in a row, not running the system/SWG 24/7. If so, I'm in better shape than before. Here are my last test numbers from yesterday in case they help.
pH 7.5
FC 16.5
CC <.5
TA 150
CH 350
CYA 30ish (still have ~1lb in the skimmer sock)
Reading through the history, you stated that you've pulled out your light, you've scrubbed ladder and railings.
Adding CYA does not lower FC in and of itself. However, when you add FC, you have to adjust your FC levels accordingly.
Do you have an autofill on your pool? The main reason for CYA to be dropping at this stage of SLAM is water replacement, it is possible for an autofill to mask a leak. Additionally, your low CC values concurs with this.
I'm grasping at straws here - you mentioned getting your test kit on 25th June, which one did you get?
Adding CYA does not lower FC in and of itself. However, when you add FC, you have to adjust your FC levels accordingly.
Do you have an autofill on your pool? The main reason for CYA to be dropping at this stage of SLAM is water replacement, it is possible for an autofill to mask a leak. Additionally, your low CC values concurs with this.
I'm grasping at straws here - you mentioned getting your test kit on 25th June, which one did you get?
PoolMath indicates that 16lbs of stabiliser in a 25 k gal pool equates to 77ppm CYA.
Something is seriously wrong.
Something is seriously wrong.
@Abigail K - Yes, 16 lbs was put in mid/late May. Mid June I had the pool store test my water and found the CYA levels were 0. There was no water replacement or anything that occurred. On top of that, while doing it the 'pool-store way', I put in 25lbs or so of granular shock, which should have added more CYA, but yet when I got my test kit, I found my CYA was <20ppm. I'm adding more now (using the sock method, which I didn't previously use, so maybe the previous stabilizer never fully dissolved and...your guess is as good as mine as to where it went), and the levels are rising. The store told me it was likely the algae somehow used up the CYA that I had added, which is why it was 0. It didn't make sense, but then again, neither does 16lbs dissolving into thin air.
As far as your first post, I cleaned behind the light, around the ladders, under the ladders, the railings, the spa, everywhere I could. When I got in last Thursday, I found some spots along the walls, around the ladder, on the sides of the plaster steps, etc that were hard to reach/get leverage when I scrubbed before. So I scrubbed those from inside the pool to make sure they were clean. I didn't feel any slime anywhere on the pool after I finished.
As far as autofill, no, I do not. I've haven't had any indications of leaks, and I've had the system running 24/7 for 2 weeks now with no real loss of water, other than evaporation. My test kit was the TF-100. I have noticed some odd readings between tests using the same water sample, which seems to be due to how much of the powder stuff I put in. I noticed that some of it has clumped together forming larger crystals. So when I get my small spoonful, if not enough of it is powder and I end up with more of the crystals that don't dissolve, my reading reads way low. But when I get those kind of readings, I've redone it and made sure to steer around the crystals and my reading is closer to what I've expected. As far as the CYA tests go, everyone (including me) was saying it should be way higher based on what I had put in, so I thought maybe the test was off somehow, but in the last few days while I've added more, it's a noticeable difference between what I was seeing (no real obscuring of the black dot) to what I'm seeing now (around 30 I can't see the black dot at all).
Like I said, something doesn't add up. We thought it was the pool store's numbers first, but doing things myself (and regularly testing every few hours), keeping the SLAM going, keeping the system running, I shouldn't still be having problems. I literally ached and couldn't move my arms yesterday due to the amount of scrubbing I did Thursday and Friday. The pool is spotless and crystal clear, yet the readings keep reading low. I even spent the $350 to replace my cartridges in my filter in case they just weren't doing enough (they needed to be replaced soon anyways). My only thought about the missing stabilizer is that it could have been in the filters when I cleaned/replaced them, but I didn't do that until almost 3 weeks after adding it, so it should have been thoroughly dissolved by then.
As far as your first post, I cleaned behind the light, around the ladders, under the ladders, the railings, the spa, everywhere I could. When I got in last Thursday, I found some spots along the walls, around the ladder, on the sides of the plaster steps, etc that were hard to reach/get leverage when I scrubbed before. So I scrubbed those from inside the pool to make sure they were clean. I didn't feel any slime anywhere on the pool after I finished.
As far as autofill, no, I do not. I've haven't had any indications of leaks, and I've had the system running 24/7 for 2 weeks now with no real loss of water, other than evaporation. My test kit was the TF-100. I have noticed some odd readings between tests using the same water sample, which seems to be due to how much of the powder stuff I put in. I noticed that some of it has clumped together forming larger crystals. So when I get my small spoonful, if not enough of it is powder and I end up with more of the crystals that don't dissolve, my reading reads way low. But when I get those kind of readings, I've redone it and made sure to steer around the crystals and my reading is closer to what I've expected. As far as the CYA tests go, everyone (including me) was saying it should be way higher based on what I had put in, so I thought maybe the test was off somehow, but in the last few days while I've added more, it's a noticeable difference between what I was seeing (no real obscuring of the black dot) to what I'm seeing now (around 30 I can't see the black dot at all).
Like I said, something doesn't add up. We thought it was the pool store's numbers first, but doing things myself (and regularly testing every few hours), keeping the SLAM going, keeping the system running, I shouldn't still be having problems. I literally ached and couldn't move my arms yesterday due to the amount of scrubbing I did Thursday and Friday. The pool is spotless and crystal clear, yet the readings keep reading low. I even spent the $350 to replace my cartridges in my filter in case they just weren't doing enough (they needed to be replaced soon anyways). My only thought about the missing stabilizer is that it could have been in the filters when I cleaned/replaced them, but I didn't do that until almost 3 weeks after adding it, so it should have been thoroughly dissolved by then.
I know you are getting to your wits end. I am wondering if it is possible that your missing CYA was converted to Ammonia. I am not an expert on this, but I have read threads where this has happened (usually over the winter)
This thread was interesting.
Maybe get an ammonia test kit and see?? Your chlorine is getting used up by something. The OCLT is still showing a loss, I wouldn't give up yet.
I know it's hard to keep at it, but I've never seen a case on here where this method didn't work, just sometimes it takes longer than others.
This thread was interesting.
Maybe get an ammonia test kit and see?? Your chlorine is getting used up by something. The OCLT is still showing a loss, I wouldn't give up yet.
I know it's hard to keep at it, but I've never seen a case on here where this method didn't work, just sometimes it takes longer than others.
That's interesting. While most of their comments were related to opening the pool up after the winter, and the CYA was already gone, the timeline of events and behavior matched what I experienced (FC dropped consistently, algae growth, cloudiness, CYA disappeared, cleared things up but FC continued to drop). It would explain why my CYA returned to zero after adding all of it. The bacteria wasn't dead yet so it turned it into ammonia. Testing it now probably isn't worthwhile as they mentioned that the initial chlorine got rid of the ammonia, which took it longer to register FC. Once their FC was showing up, the ammonia was gone.
For them, things also seemed to clear up quicker. I've gone through ~28 gallons of 12.5% chlorine, keeping my FC at 10 for the first week and 14-17 (higher after I started adding CYA in to get it up to 30ppm) for the last 4 days. My cc has also been <.5 since day 2, making me think it doesn't have much it has to break down. I could continue SLAMing the pool, but I'm already $900+ (+new cartridges) for the season in chemicals and we've only swam once. I should be seeing improvements in my readings every day, but instead the FC loss seems to be the same now as it was a week ago. If I've done everything correctly, and I'm scrubbing every day, I'd think it should be fixed by now, especially with my higher FC shock level I'm doing 'just in case'.
For them, things also seemed to clear up quicker. I've gone through ~28 gallons of 12.5% chlorine, keeping my FC at 10 for the first week and 14-17 (higher after I started adding CYA in to get it up to 30ppm) for the last 4 days. My cc has also been <.5 since day 2, making me think it doesn't have much it has to break down. I could continue SLAMing the pool, but I'm already $900+ (+new cartridges) for the season in chemicals and we've only swam once. I should be seeing improvements in my readings every day, but instead the FC loss seems to be the same now as it was a week ago. If I've done everything correctly, and I'm scrubbing every day, I'd think it should be fixed by now, especially with my higher FC shock level I'm doing 'just in case'.