Air leak driving me crazy

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JulieMorris316

JulieMorris316

0
Jul 21, 2017
58
McIntosh FL
I’m hoping that someone can help me troubleshoot an air leak. It’s driving me crazy and I can’t seem to get anywhere. Sorry I’m advance for the long post but I want to explain everything as best I can.

I actually started the season off with two problems. I was losing water, as well as sucking air. The water leak seems to have been coming from around the entrance to the skimmer. I re-sealed around it and have not noticed anymore water loss. But I can’t seem to pinpoint the air leak.

Here’s my setup -
Suction side:
side vacuum, skimmer/main drain (connected, two holes in skimmer)

On return side:
Two returns
Therapy jets
Fountain
Solar heating
Electric heater (I’ve since cut this out of the line in an attempt to eliminate some metal staining issues, but the photos were taken before bypassing the heater)
One light (never worked but haven’t replaced bulb)

Air leak details:
It started last season with a few bubbles coming from the farthest return jet and some more air in the strainer basket than normal. Over the course of the summer it got bad enough that I started losing some prime when vacuuming (I have a side suction port for a vacuum attachment).

Since I uncovered the pool this year I’ve been able to do some work to try and narrow it down. I did find a pretty substantial crack in the PVC right at the threaded connection to the spigot that’s used to help prime the pump, so that was obvious problem #1. Since I’d just replaced the inlet ball valves and really didn’t want to have to cut that whole section out and replace it again, I patched the crack with some epoxy and silicone caulk. That seems to have sealed everything up to the point that I’m able to vacuum now, but I still lose a *tiny* bit of prime by the time I’m finished.

I had put some Metal Magic in to get rid of the stains, and at first the bubbles seemed to clear up. I’m guessing that the residue that the MM created was enough to seal up whatever was leaking. I went a few rounds this way, and the leak would always come back when I dismantled the strainer basket and filter housing to clean the filter and empty the basket. It’s gotten to the point now though that I have bubbles no matter what, even though I don’t seem to be losing prime anymore.

What I’ve done to troubleshoot so far -

There are no visible cracks inside the skimmer, but I did epoxy around the edge of the connection between the skimmer and the pipe that leads to the pump just in case that was a factor.

I also thought there may be some wetness at the threaded union going into the filter housing at one point, but it’s not always there so it’s hard to tell if it’s an actual problem or not. If that connection isn’t ideal, that could explain the bubbles from the return. It could also explain why when I open the pressure release valve on the filter a decent amount of air comes out before any water starts to, but since it’s downstream of the pump it wouldn’t explain the bubbles in the strainer basket would it?

I’ve also replaced the o-ring on the filter housing, strainer lid o-ring, both drain plugs, and both union gaskets on the pump, and replaced the pressure release valve on the filter.

At the start of all this, I did notice some water leaking out of the top union on the pump (the one that goes from the pump to the filter), but replacing the gasket didn’t seem to help any. After replacing it, I still had some water seeping out, but when I took it all apart again I realized I’d over tightened it and torn the gasket, so I replaced them again and have played around with various levels of tightening. I haven’t noticed any more seeping, but still have the bubbles. I bought an o-ring kit that also came with the o-ring that goes between the two halves of the pump and the shaft seal, but I’ve not replaced these yet.

This is driving me crazy. Does anyone have any suggestions that I’ve not tried yet? I’m really hoping it’s not underground.... ?

Sorry for the super long post, but thank you in advance to anyone willing to help me figure this out!107701107702
 
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I might have spoken too soon about not having any more seepage from the top union gasket on the pump. I just went out again to look at it and there was another small puddle sitting on the pump right underneath the union, but I couldn’t see or feel any water in the threads or farther up into the union. I still suspect this might be a factor, but I’ve replaced the gasket so I’m not sure what else I might could do there, unless there’s a crack in the pump that I’m not seeing..?
 
Anyone? ?

Yesterday I took the pump apart and replaced the diffuser o-ring and the large ring that goes between the filter basket and motor and that seems to have helped quite a bit. The old diffuser ring was looking pretty rough.

The air in the filter basket is minimal now but still a handful of small bubbles swirling around, and I’m not getting any bubbles from the return jet when running normally, but it did start sucking some air when I plugged the vacuum into the side suction port (more air in the filter basket and some bubbles from the return, but greatly improved from before the o-ring replacement).

Since I wasn’t losing prime I kept vacuuming and after a while it seemed to work itself out and the bubbles from the return stopped and the basket filled back up to just the handful of bubbles, but I am still getting a small pool of water on top of the pump. It’s right underneath the top union gasket but also right beside where the two halves of the pump meet, so it’s hard to tell which one it’s coming from. Since I’ve replaced the union gasket and the o-ring between the basket and pump, I’m not sure why it’s still not sealing properly. It is probably worth mentioning that there is a small gap between the two halves of the pump assembly and if you look down into it you can see the top edge of the o-ring. I’m not sure how “closed up” this is supposed to be, but the screws are tight so I’m not sure how to fix it short of replacing one (or both?) sides of it.

Does anyone have any thoughts? please? It’s driving me crazy and I’ve done everything that I know to do.
 
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I don't think you have to change all the seals.....you have to find the leak.

That's easy to say but often hard to do. Did the article in Pool School help you?

www.troublefreepool.com

Suction Side Air Leaks

If you see air bubbles coming out of the return lines in your pool, you likely have a leak. Some signs that a suction side plumbing leak has occurred include: Read more
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
Dave2112 said:
If you getting air bubbles, your leak is on the suction side of the pump. Like you said you have to change all the seals. Don't forget the seals in your actuators. There are 2 small O-rings and a larger cover seal in each one.
Click to expand...

I have two actuators, but they’re both downstream of the pump on the pressure side. Could a leak in one of these cause bubbles that would look like a suction side leak instead of a pressure side leak?
 
duraleigh said:
I don't think you have to change all the seals.....you have to find the leak.

That's easy to say but often hard to do. Did the article in Pool School help you?

www.troublefreepool.com

Suction Side Air Leaks

If you see air bubbles coming out of the return lines in your pool, you likely have a leak. Some signs that a suction side plumbing leak has occurred include: Read more
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
Click to expand...

I walked through the pool school article and replaced the obvious o-rings (drain plugs, strainer lid, union gaskets), and checked the plumbing. It’s old but I couldn’t see anything out of place, and the water hose test didn’t help narrow it down on any of the plumbing. The point below though tells me that it has something to do with the same area that I’m seeing a little pool of water (on top of the pump, in the spot right under the top union gasket/beside the point where the strainer basket and pump are screwed together).

“6. If your pump or plumbing “spits” a little water from somewhere when the pump shuts off, that often indicates the location of an air leak.”

Before I replaced the union gasket and the diffuser o-ring and pump housing o-ring I did notice it spit a little water out of this spot (right where I see the puddle). I haven’t seen it since replacing the rings, but the puddle is still there. So this spot still seems to have an issue. Is there anything I can try past replacing the o-rings/gaskets (which I’ve already done)? TIA!
 
duraleigh said:
If that's it, it should spit the water back out just for an instant just as you turn off the pump. Is it doing that? If so, you should easily see exactly where the leak is.
Click to expand...

I did see it spit water out one time, but I haven’t seen it happen again after replacing the o-rings and union gasket. But even though it’s not spitting anymore, it is still leaking a little since there’s a small puddle of water that seeps out and pools on top of the pump (circled in the picture below. Not my pump exactly, but you get the idea). But also since I’ve replaced the diffuser and housing o-rings and the union gaskets, I’m not sure what else I could/should do to try to get a better seal in this area. Are there any other rings/gaskets in this area that may be contributing? I’m wondering at this point if there’s not a hairline crack there somewhere that I just can’t see yet.. 108068
 
well, that's the pressure side of the pump and no air is sucked in there with the pump on. What you are describing sounds minuscule and one time only......I would ignore it.

Now, what is your psi with the pump running?

Pump running, do you see splashing and frothing in the pump basket lid or is it just a few bubbles up around the lid?
 

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The psi when the filter is freshly cleaned sits at about 16.

Before I replaced the diffuser and pump housing o-rings inside the pump, the water in the filter basket was splashing and frothing around. After replacing those it is now just a handful of tiny bubbles, but swirling around as if it’s being aerated (rather than just one quarter size bubble sitting at the top of the lid).

Also when I plugged in the vacuum, it seemed to restrict the flow enough that it pulled air again from somewhere (basket swishing around and not full, and bubbles coming from the return), but I still had prime so I kept vacuuming and by the time I’d finished it seemed to have worked itself out and had gone back to the handful of small bubbles in the basket and none coming from the return.

Do you think this is unrelated to the pool of water on top of the pump? I know I’ve had multiple issues contributing to the big problems I’ve had this season and as I’ve chased them around and fixed one it got a little better, then a little better after the next fix. So maybe I have another little problem I’ve not addressed yet, or is the small amount of bubbles normal? Also thank you for your help by the way, it is very much appreciated!
 
Do you think this is unrelated to the pool of water on top of the pump?
Click to expand...
Yes. it is unrelated. You are seeing either a tiny leak or perhaps there was residual air in the vacuum hose......that's very common.

In a perfect world, you would have NO bubbles but no one's pool is perfect. My pool would have no bubbles for weeks on end and then a tiny air leak would show up and then, just as mysteriously, it would go away.

Keep fiddling with it if you like but you are good to go swimming and enjoy your pool.
 
Well it seems that I still have a problem ?. I had chased down and fixed enough things that I had gotten to the point of only having a handful of small bubbles swirling around in the pump basket (this is with a vented flap over the side/vacuum suction port. If I removed that, all bubbles went away). However, I just bought a suction side auto vacuum, and after it runs for a while air starts to accumulate in the filter basket again and once that gets bad enough bubbles start coming from the return jet. I’m thinking that the leak is small enough to not be a factor until the flow is restricted just enough from the increased effort the vacuum puts on the system to start drawing some air.

I do still have a small amount of water pooling at the top union gasket of the pump. I know this is technically pressure side, but I’ve read that an air leak can be caused by anything before or at the pump. Could this be a factor since it’s so close to the basket?

I also forgot to mention in my previous posts that at the same time I’d changed the diffuser o-ring and the big o-ring between the filter basket and motor, that I’d also put some putty around the joint on the inside of the side suction port. I’d had a much larger leak up to that point which seemed to be fixed after I did those things. I wish I hadn’t done both at the same time, because now I’m not sure which one was the one that fixed the majority of the leak ?.

Do you happen to have any more ideas? I’m about to give up and call a pro to come help, but I didn’t really want to spend that kind of money if I could find and fix it with help from here.
 
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