After 3 successful years switching from chlorine to bromine for medical reasons. Can I still use boric acid with bromine as my sanitizer?

[mking82]

I have learned so much from here and went from using the extremely expensive Frog in-line system to quickly learning to drop all that nonsense and switch to the dichlor, bleach method. It has worked wonderfully and I’ve rarely had cloudy water issues, and only the occasional dry skin complaint, until recently.

I developed either a chlorine intolerance or allergy or my doctor suspects I may be forming stasis dermatitis eczema from venous insufficiency in my legs. Oddly the hot tub can help this issue now that I’ve stopped the chronic swelling of my feet. However my doctor believes the chlorine is definitely contributing to the spreading itching and has recommended bromine for less skin drying but still having the benefit of increased circulation.

I am new to this but nervous about changing because I have to be in the top 5% of hot tub users - about one to two hours with one or two people a night (which alone contributes to drying skin, but more with chlorine). While I am nervous about maintaining my levels I am also wondering if I can still add 50 ppm of boric addiction after achieving pH and alkalinity targets because I love the feel it gives the water in addition to help fight pH creep. Can I still do this if using bromine and are the silky water effects the same (I already know that bromine will supposedly not have as much pH creep as one of its benefits)?

 

[Newdude]

daily dichlor,

Please explain further.

Dichlor adds CYA and the more CYA you have, the proportionately higher your FC needs to be in order to sanitize at the same level. A very common cause of skin irritation is insufficient chlorine.

 

[PoolBrews]

You won't want to hear this, but most major spa manufacturers have moved away from bromine due to recent clinical findings. Prolonged exposure to bromine damages the thyroid, leading to hypothyroidism (don't ask me how I know ). I had to switch my hot tub to chlorine. Sounds like you are in a no win situation.

Bromine can impact thyroid hormone production and is considered an environmental toxin that can damage the thyroid gland:

• How bromine affects the thyroid
  Bromine can:
  • Alter cellular structure
  • Reduce T4 and T3 levels
  • Compete with iodine for receptors that help produce thyroid hormones

 

[Mdragger88]

Bromine is irritating to me - much more than proper fc/cya levels.

Can you confirm your most recent test results?
Fc
Cc
Ph
Ta
Ch
Cya
have you ever purged the tub with Ahhsome ?
Do you use MPS? (Non chlorine shock)
Many blame chlorine itself when in fact its other factors.
Getting to the bottom of it is imperative as the same thing may just continue with another sanitizer.
Just so you understand, chlorine is also used in a bromine tub but its the oxidizer not the sanitizer in the system.
Other oxidizer options are MPS which is a known skin irritant.
Dichlor is a component in most br tablets.

About the borates - it’s totally fine to use them in a bromine spa.

How do I use Bromine in my Spa or Hot Tub?

Originally Posted by waterbear There is a lot of misinformation on the proper way to use Bromine so I hope this primer is helpful. First, you need to establish a bromide reserve in the water. Bromine tablets can do it by themselves but it can take literally weeks until enough dissolves. Some...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[mking82]

Please explain further.

Dichlor adds CYA and the more CYA you have, the proportionately higher your FC needs to be in order to sanitize at the same level. A very common cause of skin irritation is insufficient chlorine.

View attachment 608193

Please explain further.

Dichlor adds CYA and the more CYA you have, the proportionately higher your FC needs to be in order to sanitize at the same level. A very common cause of skin irritation is insufficient chlorine.

View attachment 608193

Sorry, I don't know why I put the word "daily" in there and I corrected it. I use dichlor until I hit 30ppm CYA, then switch to liquid pool chlorinator (sodium hypochlorite 10%), AKA strong bleach.

 

[mking82]

You won't want to hear this, but most major spa manufacturers have moved away from bromine due to recent clinical findings. Prolonged exposure to bromine damages the thyroid, leading to hypothyroidism (don't ask me how I know ). I had to switch my hot tub to chlorine. Sounds like you are in a no win situation.

Bromine can impact thyroid hormone production and is considered an environmental toxin that can damage the thyroid gland:

• How bromine affects the thyroid
  Bromine can:
  • Alter cellular structure
  • Reduce T4 and T3 levels
  • Compete with iodine for receptors that help produce thyroid hormones

You won't want to hear this, but most major spa manufacturers have moved away from bromine due to recent clinical findings. Prolonged exposure to bromine damages the thyroid, leading to hypothyroidism (don't ask me how I know ). I had to switch my hot tub to chlorine. Sounds like you are in a no win situation.

Bromine can impact thyroid hormone production and is considered an environmental toxin that can damage the thyroid gland:

• How bromine affects the thyroid
  Bromine can:
  • Alter cellular structure
  • Reduce T4 and T3 levels
  • Compete with iodine for receptors that help produce thyroid hormones

I had not heard that and when I mentioned it to my doctor, she looked at my chart and said, "since you've had your thyroid removed you're fine." Of course now my spouse is paranoid, but I am happy to report my skin cleared up and the itching stopped since the switch.

 

[mking82]

Bromine is irritating to me - much more than proper fc/cya levels.

Can you confirm your most recent test results?
Fc
Cc
Ph
Ta
Ch
Cya
have you ever purged the tub with Ahhsome ?
Do you use MPS? (Non chlorine shock)
Many blame chlorine itself when in fact its other factors.
Getting to the bottom of it is imperative as the same thing may just continue with another sanitizer.
Just so you understand, chlorine is also used in a bromine tub but its the oxidizer not the sanitizer in the system.
Other oxidizer options are MPS which is a known skin irritant.
Dichlor is a component in most br tablets.

About the borates - it’s totally fine to use them in a bromine spa.

How do I use Bromine in my Spa or Hot Tub?

Originally Posted by waterbear There is a lot of misinformation on the proper way to use Bromine so I hope this primer is helpful. First, you need to establish a bromide reserve in the water. Bromine tablets can do it by themselves but it can take literally weeks until enough dissolves. Some...

www.troublefreepool.com

Hello! Since I use my hot tub so often I definitely go overboard and test daily due to the daily use and have been nicknames the "water nazi" at home. I was second guessing myself so much on the reds and yellows of pH and chlorine tests that I shelled out the money for an electronic pH and chlorine tester. I found that I had to because my pH would go up to 8.3 daily before I would knock it down. So my daily bleach was more like daily muriatic acid and bleach, then get the Alk back to around 50 before the soak. Before I converted my last reading was (and these are typical of my levels):
Fc: 4
Cc: 0.1
pH: 7.6
Ta: 50
Borates: 50
Ch: 100
CYA: 30

 

[Newdude]

but I am happy to report my skin cleared up and the itching stopped since the switch.

Your 30 CYA buffered the active HOCL in the chlorinated water and it was less harsh than tap water, even at slam FC. (12 for you)

Are you able to bathe/shower ok or does that dry you out too ?

 

[Mdragger88]

Not sure what tester you purchased but I would not recommend relying solely upon it. Especially for chlorine.
The fas dpd test is what we recommend for accurate fc & cc or total br checks not the yellow OTO test as there is a definite end point.
While the phenol red ph test is a little hard to interpret for some it is still the gold standard and your meter should be checked against it regularly.

For the ph - when your ta is around 50 try to avoid large ph reductions.
Going from 8.0/8.2 to 7.6/7.8 is plenty. This should help prevent the ta from dipping too low. Some find in a spa that so long as ta is above 40 they are ok & ph remains fairly stable. 50 is the sweet spot for many.
Don’t rush to add baking soda to increase ta unless it falls below 40 & when its needed be sparing. A little goes a long way in a small body of water. You can always add more later.

One other thought
Many people add a little salt to the water just for the feel even if not using a saltwater chlorine generator.
About 2000ppm does the trick.

Salt - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[mking82]

Your 30 CYA buffered the active HOCL in the chlorinated water and it was less harsh than tap water, even at slam FC. (12 for you)

Are you able to bathe/shower ok or does that dry you out too ?

Unfortunately I got the genetic short straw when it comes to skin. I have battled dry skin for years, so showers dry me out as well and I have to use lots of lotions. Before relocating to Washington I lived in Ventura, California for 13 years and picked up surfing. Oddly enough, as long as I went in the water at least twice a week, it was 13 years with a lot fewer skin issues and a lot less lotion use. I have considered a salt water chlorinator and the salesman was eager to sell me a unit. But when I told the salesman how much the hot tub was used he wasn't sure this was the best idea and that it would keep up with the proper sanitizing level (first time they actually stopped trying to sell me something).

 

[Mdragger88]

Unfortunately I got the genetic short straw when it comes to skin. I have battled dry skin for years, so showers dry me out as well and I have to use lots of lotions. Before relocating to Washington I lived in Ventura, California for 13 years and picked up surfing. Oddly enough, as long as I went in the water at least twice a week, it was 13 years with a lot fewer skin issues and a lot less lotion use. I have considered a salt water chlorinator and the salesman was eager to sell me a unit. But when I told the salesman how much the hot tub was used he wasn't sure this was the best idea and that it would keep up with the proper sanitizing level (first time they actually stopped trying to sell me something).

In a standalone spa the main job of the swcg and where it really shines is standby chlorination.
depending upon the bather load some supplemental chlorine is usually needed after most uses. This is due to the fact that swcg’s are designed to maintain (output a set amount) so unless you set it high enough to account for all bather loads in advance you’ll end up with a deficit that takes swcg time to make up. Time in which nasties can grow.
Setting it high enough to account for the heaviest uses can mean if you don’t happen to use the spa fc can climb quite high in standby periods if the swcg isn’t adjusted accordingly. I like to adjust mine to meet in the middle so light use (1 clean person for 30 min or less daily) is generally covered but anything more & I need a splash of chlorine. This means I don’t need to constantly change my settings all the time. I usually change them by the season.
In the heat of summer we use the tub less so its set lower than in the cooler weather/heavier use times. Mine is manually adjusted (i just select a specific amount of run time).
There are some units like the ControlOmatic Smarter spa that are supposed to adjust themselves as fc is needed. (There are still set point adjustments that are made)
Obviously the more the cell is used the shorter its life span will be as well. The cost can add up quickly with some systems that already have short cell lives like the freshwater system so that should be considered.

As I mentioned, you don’t have to take the swcg plunge to see if salt in the water helps your skin. It can be added just for feel.
Although, I must say, I do love my swcg! I wouldn’t have a pool or spa without one due to the convenience factor alone.