Advice on Pool Refurb Options

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J

jsridley

0
Jun 1, 2018
35
Houston, TX
I’m a new pool owner and very glad I found the forum. Been taking care of chemistry myself and recently bought an M400 robot per what I’ve learned here. So far so good.

When we bought the house we knew the plaster was pretty bad and would need to be re-done. We plan to be in this house forever and while budget is a concern I’m willing to invest some money into making the pool really great for years to come.

I’m not really sure what’s all possible in terms of things I could do to “upgrade” the pool. After reading many posts on TFP, here are some thoughts but I’m interested in what others might suggest:


  • Some sort of pebble surface that’s more durable than plaster. (I need to research the options more)
  • Add a SWG. At ~35k gallons is a 60k generator big enough... do they get bigger than that?
  • Automation of some sort. Really I’d just like to be able to switch water and heat to the spa from inside the house. I don't really know what my options here are yet.
  • Variable speed pump. (Again, need to research more, but seems like this is often recommended in these forums)
  • Re-do the coping along the edge, or at least re-do the grout which is all cracked and ugly looking

What else would you consider to upgrade this pool?
What’s the ideal time of year to resurface a pool (Houston, TX)?
Currently it doesn’t seem like much gets to my one skimmer. I just ordered a replacement for the weir door which is broke so I hope that helps but are there other things I could do to help improve that? I’m thinking I’ll add a PoolSkim now.

See my signature for details on the pool equipment. I’ve got 1 skimmer, and 4 pool returns (3 in shallow end and 1 in spa) and 2 spa returns. I also have a custom cover which seems invaluable in the fall/winter as there’s LOTs of trees around.

Thanks very much for any input or advice!

IMG_6214.jpgIMG_6219.jpgIMG_6220.jpg
 
js,

I have a couple of pools with pebble and another with plain white plaster.. I actually like the look of the plain plaster, but the pebble pools seem to be more durable and do not show the marks that can show up in the white plaster.

The only downside to pebble is that it feels like sandpaper on your feet. You can get it "polished", but that makes it too costly for me.

The simplest thing to do, but also the most costly, is to replace the coping, the waterline tile, and the plaster all at the same time. I did this to a rent house and it turned out quite nice. But that pool was in very sad shape compared to yours...

It appears your coping is in good shape, not sure about the tile.. if the tile is ok than the most cost effective thing to do would be to just have the pool re-plastered. I would recommend pebble, but you need to put your feet in a pebble pool to make sure. The little sample they show you will just not cut it... ( A little sandpaper humor... :p )

I love my automation system, but the downside is the initial cost... Some things that I recommendation for sure are a SWCG and a VS pump. You will need a 60K unit with your size pool and since you will have to run the pump a long time to generate the chlorine you need, a VS pump is almost a requirement. Here in most parts of Texas, you can run a VS pump at a low RPM, 24/7, for less than $20 bucks a month...

Here is an overview of my automation system that might give you a basic idea what they can do.. Written for another thread, but most of the info applies to your situation...

1. Automation will help you with pool maintenance, but it will not replace the need for you to test your water, understand what you are looking at, and then making sure your water is balanced. (Another reason you need the accuracy of the TF100 test kit.)

2. The main downside to automation is cost. So before going too far down this path, you might ask your PB what it's going to cost. That said, the best time to install automation is when the pool is being built, because all the connections to the system can be made without having to figure out how you are to get power across 50' of new deck. Also, the additional cost, when compared to the cost of the pool, will be miniscule.

3. Automation systems work best when the same brand is used because then the pieces can "talk" to together. So, in your case I would recommend the EasyTouch 4 (or 8) that has a built in power supply for the SWG and generally comes with the SWG and two valves. ScreenLogic2 is an absolute requirement if you want to be able to control things from your PC or Phone.

Here is a list of what I think the advantages are:

1. Appearance. Instead of having a bunch of different boxes hanging on your wall you have one, professional looking enclosure.

2. Circuit Breaker Panel. The bottom half of the enclosure is a circuit-breaker panel where the breakers for your pool equipment (Pumps, Heater, etc.) are located. This panel is also an excellent place to add surge protector, which is an absolute must if you have the Intelliflo pump. Even if you do not get the automation, make sure your PB includes a surge protector for the pump.

3. SWG Control. Without automation, your SWG will have to have a timer, synced to the pump timer so that it does not run when the pump is off. This function is built into the EasyTouch.

4. Spa mode and SWG output. Normally all the water flows through the SWG, so when in the Spa mode, the EasyTouch reduces the amount of chlorine the SWG produces, so that the Spa users are not subjected to high levels of chlorine.

5. Pool Lighting. The EasyTouch allows you to control your pool lighting from your PC and/or from a schedule. This is another reason to add the EasyTouch now. Once your pool light is wired to switches inside your house, it might be very difficult to get the wiring to any automation system.

6. Control of Spill-over and bubblers. Right now I'm sure you are thinking I want that spillover running 24-hours a day because it is so beautiful.. Well, after a few weeks of having your pH go through the roof, you'll appreciate the ability to only turn it on, when you want it on. The same with the bubblers. With the Easytouch, you can program them to run on a schedule for a few minutes a day to keep the everything properly chlorinated or when you want to "show off" to your guests..

7. Relay Control. The EasyTouch 4 has four (really three) relays that can be used to control other things, such as, Booster pumps, Spa blowers, landscape lights, etc…. The EasyTouch 8 has eight (really 7) relays.

8. Built in Valve controls. The EasyTouch has the ability to control 4 valves. Two work for switching between the Pool and Spa modes, while two others can be programmed to do whatever you might want, like bubbler control. I would note that a lot of bubblers are controlled by manual valves that cannot be automated. You need to be sure to tell your PB that you want Jandy style valves for your bubbler control.

9. Heater Control. The EasyTouch can control your heater.. So, you can be inside and tell your PC what temperature you want the Spa to be and it will tell you when it is ready.

10. Solar System. The EasyTouch has a built-in solar controller.. It does however use one of the valve outputs to run…

11. ScreenLogic. ScreenLogic allows you to program the EasyTouch with various schedules. It lets you see most all of the inputs and output to the EasyTouch and lets you decide what you want on/off and in the case of your SWG, lets you adjust the % of output on the fly.

12. Variable Speed pumps... The EasyTouch can be programmed to adjust your pump’s speed. So when running just the pool, it can run slow, but when running your waterfall, it will automatically increase the speed to make your waterfall or other water features look exactly how you want them to look.


Please let me know if you have any questions,

Jim R.
 
js,

Yes, that is the system I would recommend...

I have installed two of them myself and even though at the time I had no idea what I was doing, they both came out fine. If you have done any electrical work at all, it is pretty simple...

And, besides we are here to help if you run into an issue...

I really recommend that you install ScreenLogic at the same time.. Programming via your PC is about 10 x easier than with the little 3" LCD... What initially took me all day now takes 10 minutes...

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Wow, the previous owners really committed that backyard to a pool, didn't they?

You'll love the automation and VS pump and SWG. Jim's got you covered. Here's some other random ideas...

Depending on budget, it's not unheard of to modify structure in a remodel. You could add steps, a bench, a baja shelf, etc. You could completely change the personality of your pool, and how you use it.

If your returns are just holes, they can add eyeballs to improve circulation (which might help with the skimming if you currently don't have eyeballs).

I had my drains deleted during my resurfacing. Safer, better looking, no more vacuum hangups, etc. Depending on how integral your drains are to circulation, you might not need them. Speaking of which, if you determine the drain stays, and you only have one, that is not the safest setup. You could convert your single drain to the much safer dual setup (depending on your jurisdiction, that might actually be required by code). Something to look into.

Regarding the finish, it sounds like you might be up against the same dilemma as I was. This will likely be my last house. If I take care of myself, I might get another 30 years or so. Plaster can last 15 years. I have a theory that that "average life" figure it based on all pools, most of which are not properly balanced most of the time. I'd like to think a TFP pool's plaster could go 20 years. I have nothing to back that up. But that's 10 years short of the 30 I might need! Pebble is supposed to last longer. Does that mean 20 years? Or 25? Maybe 30 if the water is balanced perfectly the entire time? I hope so. That's what I gambled on. I had a plaster finish. I loved it, even covered in calcium, it just felt great to feet and hands. My new pebble looks great, but is just flat out not as comfortable. I didn't look into the polishing Jim mentions, and maybe that's in my future some day. I selected the smallest pebble I could, and it still feels very rough. Not just "pebbly" rough, but literally abrasive. On the feet and hands, it's OK. Which is how I got "fooled." I went to my plasterer's showroom and stood in their demo pool and felt it with my hands. But now that it's in my pool and I actually swim with it, this is what I now know. Pardon the visual... But when the kids aren't around, suits are optional in my pool. And sitting on a pebble bench is not all that comfortable. If I kneel on the surface, like when engaging with my g-daughter, I can feel the pebbles digging into my softer skin there. If I were to drag my knee or elbow across the surface, with not much pressure, I'm sure it'd break skin. I experienced none of that with my plaster surface. Maybe I got a batch that is rougher than others, but I hear about similar results in other pools. Point was, if you go test alternate surfaces, don't just feel them with hands and feet.

So how long do you have left? Will a batch of plaster see you through? Get the plaster. Do you need 25 or 30 years? Maybe gamble as I did that my pebble will last that long and I won't have to pay again. Pebble was only about $2K more. Which is why I went that way. I figured I'd pay more now, then maybe never pay again. Plaster would have been cheaper, but I didn't think I could stretch it 30 years. If you don't need to pinch pennies like that, and you have at least as many years to consider, maybe you go with two batches of plaster? More money, but a nicer finish for your skin. And just to confuse the issue: I just paid 2017 prices for my [hopefully] last finish. If I had gone the other way, and got the cheaper plaster finish now, who knows what the second batch will cost 15 years from now!?!

It's creepy thinking of your remaining years here in terms of what pool surface to buy, but that's what I did. Pools are expensive, even when they don't have problems. Mine will impact my finances to some degree for the rest of my life. Some consideration of that now, at least for me, was in order. I'll let you know in a few decades how it all turns out!! ;)
 
Dirk, thanks for the post. I hadn't really considered the abrasiveness of a pebble surface... I'm not sure I like the thought of sitting in my spa and feeling that uncomfortable. In my mind the pebble surface was going to be "nicer" not just in terms of duration but looks and feel as well. Sounds like that's not the case.

I do have eyeballs on my returns. In terms of drains, there's one at the center of the deep end (and one in the spa)... I assume I'd need that. If you remove that drain, then all the return would be through the skimmer, correct? How would I know if that's ok in terms of circulation. More to look into.

I like the thoughts of some structure changes... at least a little shelf/ledge between the spa and pool so you can hop from one to the other easily.

And yes... the whole back yard is pretty much pool... wouldn't have been our first choice and I definitely wish it was a bit smaller, but it's growing on me.
 
Ha, well when you're in the pool, you want more pool. And when you're in your yard, you want more yard!

I think it's a pretty common experience, that pebble, no matter how fine or how polished, is rougher than plaster. I went with "affordable longevity." So I didn't look into the many other pool surface options. They're out there.

What's your timeline? I suppose one way to determine if you need drains or not is to turn them off for a while (a month? or two?) and see how your pool does. If you have the time, you have the means to experiment to see if your drains are actually doing anything for you or not. I don't know spa plumbing at all, I suspect that drain is an integral part of its function, so that drain would likely have to stay. Regarding the main drain, many have setups where the drain is part of their safety backup for the pump. If for some reason your water level fell below the skimmer opening, without a drain configured to take over, the pump will suck the skimmer dry and then suck air, potentially damaging the pump. A float valve in the skimmer can close that port off under those conditions, and direct the pump's intake to the drain, keeping the pump safe. I have an auto fill system which negates this risk by some degree (not completely), so I'm rolling the dice on that. I believe it to be a very low risk for my pool. Just mentioning that so you can consider it. If your system is missing that float valve configuration, I don't believe your drain is adding this safety. Something to ask of your PB.
 
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