Advice on New Equipment

[Mutchinator]

Hi - I have a set of 17 year old equipment (single speed pump few years old); looking to go with Intellicenter or OmniLogic and could use some advice on making sure I get the right stuff. Pricing from pool companies is like 20k and I found the same hardware for around $8k so will DIY:

Equipment Config in Signature - pics attached as well

Assumptions
* Going to split the three-way valves for both suction and return; so I will have (Floor Drains, Skimmers, Wall Returns, Floor Returns) - total of (4) two-way Jandy Never-lube
* Adding Propane Heater - plus bypass valve/plumbing?
* Adding Automation
* Will stick within the same brand "Ecosystem" - Pentair or Hayward - for SWG, Pump, and Controller (and pH if I add)
* Pump size - presently I have Jandy 1.5hp single speed

Equipment
Automation Controller (Intellicenter or OmniLogic)
Propane Heater (RayPak 400k)
SWG (Pentair IC60 or Hayward AquaRite)
Pump (Pentar Intlelliflow or Hayward Ecostar/Tristar)
pH (Pentair IntellipH or Hayward Sense & Dispense)
Valves - Jandy Neverlube
Filter (Pentair FNS60 or Hayward/Starite Modular Media)
Lighting Transformer - for path lights etc

Questions
Any suggestions on Pentair vs Hayward? They both seem decently reviewed.
Pump Size - pool company recommended a 3hp Tristar and just run it lower RPM; but would it be better to go smaller and do same? I would never run 3hp anywhere near 80%+.
Any value in automating the Jandy valves for suction & returns?
I like idea of multiport valve but I know I don't need if I go cartridge. Generally for vacuum to waste and maybe recirc if filter is not working. Any suggestions for how to handle this?
Pool company told me not to have bypass on heater - but I would only run it in May, early June and September (on demand when I am going to use it). Does it make sense to have a bypass on heater so I am not running salt water through it all the time?
If I do bypass heater - do I need to drain it to avoid water sitting in heat exchanger/piping? Again I would likely not use in July/August/early-Sept at all.
I do a good job of keeping water balanced - so SWG will take the CHL out of my mind; mixed feelings on MA Dosing System but its reasonable cost around $500 I think and one less thing to deal with.
I have two main drains - is SVRS more headache than its worth?

Any other suggestions/ideas?

Sorry for long post - but been reading alot of just wanted to put it out in one post.

Thanks much - Jason

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jason,

I have an SVRS pump and it is the worst pool decision I ever made.. I never recommend a pump with the SVRS option

I am a Pentair kind of guy, so obviously that is what I recommend. If you use Pentair automation you will have to use the 3 HP IntelliFlo.. The smaller SuperFlo VS cannot be controlled by Pentair automation as it has no RS-485 port.

I currently have an EasyTouch.. If I were to build a new pool today, it would have the IntelliCenter.. It is much better than the EasyTouch.

I see no advantage to automating the Intake and Return valves since you have no water features.

I would originally start with just the IC60 and no ipH and see how it goes. Adding a little acid once a week is not much of an effort.. Easy to add later if really needed..

If you often get algae, I would not go with a cartridge filter, since you can't backwash them.. If you never get algae, then a large cartridge filter is the way to go. You can, if you want, install a three-way Jandy valve between the pump and filter as a way to vacuum to waste.

I would definitely install a filter by-pass.. This is a valve that you could automate if you wanted... You would do this to remove the back pressure that the filter adds.. As an example.. Without a heater I can run as low as 1100 RPM and still close my SWCG's flow switch.. If I had a heater I would probably have to run at 1500 to 1800 RPM. Salt water will not hurt your heater.. Very low pH is what does the damage.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Mutchinator]

Great thank you! So sounds like the base 4 relay system will work - I would also control the pool light and colors. Presently have Colorlogic from like 2007 - was debating on upgrading.

 

[Mutchinator]

Ordering equipment today - sticking with Pentair. Two questions which came up - 1) for the heater bypass valve; that would be a three-way correct?; and 2) is there any value in adding an inline tablet chlorinator or just stick purely with the SWG? I was thinking if I needed to bump up CYA or when on vacation.

 

[Jimrahbe]

M,

For a heater bypass, you will need a three way valve and a check valve.. The reason for this is that you want to be able to take the heater out completely for maintenance.. You would not do this normally, but if you are going to install a bypass you should do it right. The three way directs the water to or around the heater on the input pipe, and the check valve prevents water from coming in the output pipe.

Up to you on the tab feeder.. But keep in mind that they do not work well with a VS pump running at a low RPM. As far as vacations goes, that is the whole point of having a SWCG.. You can go on vacation and the SWCG keeps generating the amount of chlorine that you need. If concerned, you could leave a spot in the plumbing for it, to be added in the future.

I have a rent house about 15 miles away.. I take care of the water and generally only go there once a month.. The tenant takes care of skimmer basket, adding water, etc, but the pool takes care of itself. Lucky for me that the pH on that pool does not seem to increase much at all..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Mutchinator]

OK - thanks again for the advice - here is what I think I am going with. Most I will purchase from Polytec - as prices seem to be best or near best. Any suggestions from what I have?

Pentair IntelliCenter 5PIC60 Kit - Pool only with Load Center and IC60
Pentair Quad 100 DE/Cartridge Filter - 160GPM
Raypak Ruud RP2100 399K BTU Propane Gas Pool Heater, Digital #010009, 009227
Pentair IntelliFlo VSF Variable Speed / Flow Pool Pump - 011056
Jandy NeverLube for all valves

**Filter Valve**
Pentair FullFloXF Backwash Valve 2" - 3" for Sand and Quad DE Filter
Or - I may just use Jandy 3-way since I will likely only take filter apart and not backwash
Is there any value in having ability to recirculate?

Final Question
Also changing my 13 year old ColorLogic 2.0 LED light with a Pentair IntelliBrite 5g Color LED Pool Light -
If I go with 12V - do I need a separate transformer or can I drive this from the Intellicenter?
Will it fit in existing niche?

 

[Jimrahbe]

M,

In my mind it is ridiculous to install an off brand SWCG if you have Pentair automation. You need to buy the IntelliCenter load center that comes with the internal SWCG power supply and then buy just the IC60 cell. If you install an off brand SWCG, you will have to go the equipment pad to adjust the cell's output and you will have not see the salt level reported by the cell.. The world wont't end, but it is like buying 4 new tires.. 3 of one brand and the forth of another brand...

I would skip the backwash valve if you get the Quad 100, but I would add the 3-way Jandy valve so you can vacuum to waste..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Mutchinator]

Perfect - I was thinking the same; glad you helped reaffirm. I found isolation 12v transformer - but light niche I am reading mixed signals on forums. I could stick with the ColorLogix 4.0 but will go Pentair if niche works. Also going 12V - just need to make sure lumens is similar to 120V.

 

[Jimrahbe]

M,

I can't help much with the lights.. I have one simple white light...

Jim R.

 

[dianedebuda]

Most I will purchase from Polytec - as prices seem to be best or near best.

I'm going to buying a bunch of Pentair too, but think I'm going to try Wholesale Pool Equipment for mine 'cause with 3 major Pentair items they will give a company-sponsored (not Pentair) 3 year warranty for DIY; with Polytec it's only 60 days. My package looks like it's going to be about $130 more with Wholesale rather than Polytec. Have seen a couple mentions of them here on TFP, but nothing like the quantity of folks going to Polytec. Just FWIW.

 

[Mutchinator]

I spoke with Polytec - and going to have an electrician do electrical; which they said will cover me for the warranty. Also may go with Pentair heater vs Raypak.

 

[dianedebuda]

Good to hear that you can get warranty while buying from Polytec. I figure I'll probably never use it, but like the illusion of a safety net.

 

[Mutchinator]

So I have finalized my BOM - and two open questions before pulling trigger:
1) RayPak RP2100 vs Pentair - MasterTemp 460737
2) Jandy Leverlube vs Pentair (2 and 3 way valves)

 

[Jimrahbe]

M,

We tend to recommend the RayPak.

In the big picture, it does not matter for the heater or the valves..

Jim R.