Actuator to control flow through a 2 way valve

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pools_kalavo

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Jan 2, 2016
23
UK
Hello,

Please does anyone know of an actuator on the market which is able to control the flow through a 2 way valve from fully on to fully off and any setting in between. If not, is there a motorized valve which can do the same function. It's 2 inch pipework. I was hoping to put two of the valves in a fairly harsh environment (surge tank).


Thanks

kalavo
 
Pentair makes a "digital" version of the CVA-24 valve called the IntelliValve - http://www.pentairpool.com/products/automation-intellivalve-valve-actuator-478.htm

However, don't be fooled into thinking this is something that allows you continuos control. All it does is allow you to program the start and stop points of the valve actuator electronically without having to open up the actuator guts and adjust mechanical cams like one does with a standard CVA-24. So while this IntelliValve in somewhat more convenient in that sense, it is hardly "intelligent".

There are no valve actuators in the pool equipment market that allow for continuous adjustment of the diverter. I'm sure there are actuators that can do that in the commercial world, but they would be far too expensive for simple residential pools.
 
pooldv said:
That is pretty nifty. I've never seen that before. Adjustable in 3.75° increments is pretty good.
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Yeah, interesting but given how frequently a CVA-24 can fail (I've had two replaced over the the last three years and one on my spa is starting to act glitchy), I'm not sure I want to sink the extra money into these valves. Not to mention the fact that it all has to be adjusted at the pad. If Pentair wanted to make them better, they'd allow the programming to be controlled through the ET panel and for feedback and precise adjustment through automation....but then, who'd want to spend $300+ on a valve actuator....
 
JoyfulNoise said:
Yeah, interesting but given how frequently a CVA-24 can fail (I've had two replaced over the the last three years and one on my spa is starting to act glitchy),
Click to expand...
Who is the manufacture?

My Goldlines are still going strong after 10 years.
 
I don't see how it would be difficult for the Easytouch to control the valves. They would simply need to set the rotation based off a certain amount of time or gear rotations.

Pentair and most others issue is they they continue to put the brain in the appliance instead of letting automation risky control it.

Why in the world are the drivers for pool lights built into the lights themselves? Why not build a serial cable into the light cord for control?

Why is the brain of the salt cell a fraction of an inch from pressurized pool water?

Why are the brains built into the pumps?

Why do actuators need cams? They should have versions for automation systems that are controlled from the panel.
 
bdavis466 said:
I don't see how it would be difficult for the Easytouch to control the valves. They would simply need to set the rotation based off a certain amount of time or gear rotations.

Pentair and most others issue is they they continue to put the brain in the appliance instead of letting automation risky control it.

Why in the world are the drivers for pool lights built into the lights themselves? Why not build a serial cable into the light cord for control?

Why is the brain of the salt cell a fraction of an inch from pressurized pool water?

Why are the brains built into the pumps?

Why do actuators need cams? They should have versions for automation systems that are controlled from the panel.
Click to expand...

I think you know the answer to that -

Abba - Money, Money, Money - YouTube

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mas985 said:
Who is the manufacture?

My Goldlines are still going strong after 10 years.
Click to expand...


Maybe it's time to dump Pentair actuators and go with Hayward....as JamesW said, CVA is the old Compool line of products. As with most acquisitions, Pentair gobbled up PacFab and StaRite and, aside from changing the name, basically continued production of the same-ol-same-old. It's pretty common in tech acquisitions - you keep all the same workers, factories, designs, etc and slap a different label on it without ever trying to improve the fundamentals of the underlying technology.
 

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I'll amend my comments in one way, it's not all about money (but's that a big part of it).

In order to build pumps, SWG's, light's, etc., that can stand-alone or be used with an automation panel, the intelligence has to unfortunately be on-board. Because, for example, if you want to sell someone a IntelliBrite-5G, then you can't say to the prospective customer - "oh, and you also need to buy this $800 automation panel to make the lights work." You also generally don't want to have competing product lines in the same business (something I learned while working in technology). So, in an effort to be all things to all people, compromises are made that unfortunately makes pool equipment both overly-complicated and really dumb....which sounds a lot like some of my in-laws.....
 
JoyfulNoise said:
...unfortunately this makes pool equipment both overly-complicated and really dumb....which sounds a lot like some of my in-laws.....
Click to expand...

:goodjob: Best thing I've read in a long time!

Oddly enough making the actual equipment dumb and controlling through automation would make the parts much less expensive and couldn't add much to automation systems since little would require actual hardware but programming and coding instead. This might make the jump to full blown automation much more reasonable for a lot of people.

It seems like the big manufacturers push automation on the consumer anyway and come up with somewhat backwoods fixes in order to get their products to work without automation. The SWGs are a perfect example of this since they do not work well a standalone unit and are restrictive when coupled with automation... Basically falling short in both areas - like some of my in-laws.

Don't even get me started on the lights... Like some of my in-laws
 
Thanks for the replies. I'm speaking from a position of zero practical experience as we are still building our pool and it will be a few months yet before it is finished. However, I am hoping to automate it as much as I can.

As far as the lights are concerned, I have bought the WT2 versions of these:
http://www.water-tec.co.uk/
A standard DMX512 decoder can talk to these lights and therefore I should be able to get a computer program to get the lights to do anything I want. My plan is to make them change colour along the pool at the speed I wish to swim at!

For monitoring the level of the surge tank I'm hoping to do something similar to what this guy has done for measuring the water level in horse troughs:
http://www.makingstuff.info/Projects/Water_Level_Sensor_Part_1

Maybe I'm being somewhat naive and simplistic here, but, I'm thinking about the possibility of controlling the actuators by shutting off the power supply.
Via a flow meter I would know what flow rate I'm trying to achieve from the valve. If a program first gets actuator to close the valve. Then asks the actuator to open the valve and gives it "pulses" of power until the required flow rate is met.
If the power is shut off and then switched back on, does anyone know if one of these actuators will continue with what it was doing?
 
I believe that if a valve actuator is cammed to open 90° on a voltage trigger that it will stop at the point where voltage is cut and when voltage is reapplied it will continue the cycle. But, I'm not sure. If someone else doesn't come along and answer definitively I can do an experiment today or tomorrow.
 
If you can find a flow meter, you could use the limit switches on any valve to stop th valve movement when the desired flow is achieved.

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pooldv said:
I believe that if a valve actuator is cammed to open 90° on a voltage trigger that it will stop at the point where voltage is cut and when voltage is reapplied it will continue the cycle. But, I'm not sure. If someone else doesn't come along and answer definitively I can do an experiment today or tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is true. However, I think using the limit switches would be a better approach, per above.
 
The actuators are very simple. The power never is cut but only switches from one leg to the other. When the cam reaches the limit switch the power is disengaged until the actuator is called to rotate in the opposite direction and power is sent to the other leg.
 
Hello Jon, I was under the impression you couldn't set the limit switches remotely. i.e. you have to physically press a button on the actuator or open it up and adjust a cam

Brian, my suggestion was to cut the power when the valve reaches the position of the required flow rate. However, I'm suggesting doing this in a series of small bursts so that a flow meter can report back on the flow rate after each burst of power. i.e. a computer program is controlling when the actuator is given the voltage to continue in its current direction. From what pooldv and Matt have observed that seems like a possibility.
 

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