Abandoned Pool Build, Trying to finish

[Taylor1584]

Hi all,

The multi day pour was a result of my pool size I'm told. They did work until sundown on day 1 and then into the night on day 2. I can't say what should have been done differently and though it seemed a bit odd, I was assured this is normal.

It is in fact the neighbor's who referred the PB not the PB himself who's kids are at my house. I actually had a discussion with the neighbor's wife yesterday and let her know their kids were not welcome in our home anymore.

Not surprisingly, she told me I was throwing a fit because now the PB wants to charge me $3500 for the plaster finish requested and "we have expensive tastes" My side of that discussion shows we picked out the color in writing before signing the contract. The contract says "Pebble Sheen included" and we have 2-3 emails from her saying roughly, "oh sure, yeah all things Pebble Sheen are included don't even worry about that in the pricing." In the last month the tune has changed to roughly "the contract just says Pebble Sheen but does not specify a color. Ocean Blue is a level 2 and therefore we have to charge you. How was I supposed to know and it's not my faults it's an upgraded color and I can't control the pricing". Sheesh.

The neighbor's wife doesn't even know a fraction of the issues and she doesn't want to listen to them because "she doesn't do drama". OK

It is clear as day to me that this outfit is a problem. I have learned more about pool building in the last months than I ever cared to know. I've also learned a lot about the law, deceptive trade practices (civil and criminal), Texas Construction Trust Act, etc, etc. It is my plan to push for the maximum I can. Cash is an interesting challenge in these situations as it is a substantial outlay up front and potentially for years to get through the courts. Granted a victory in the end would repay those (some) costs. In my reading there is lots of commentary that most people let this go at a civil level once costs are recouped. While I have learned to never say never, I do not foresee dropping this one at that stage. That's just another factor I am evaluating in the grand scheme of getting this pool finished and working to ensure nobody has to go through this again.

I tend to agree with not dropping it at the civil level. Most contractors don't want to go through a suit, it then becomes a matter of public record. One thing I learned when the contractor is also the owner, sue both.

 

[carx7]

Realistically your builder has made more on your build then any other build that he finishes. You've paid almost all moneys due but he's not delivered some of the most expensive parts like plaster and decking. So he's not going to care at all if you don't finish with him. Very sad he's the type of builder that gives the others a bad name. Find a good, aggressive lawyer.

Agreed. Being a first time pool builder I did see commonality from all builders big and small around requiring final payment prior to plaster. Seemed a like a big gamble to me, but since it was present with all builders I decided it was a "builders market"... Along the way I got numerous warning signs, but they always managed to do "just enough"...

I don’t know how close you were with the neighbors but what sucks more is that relationship has been crushed by this whole thing, and you still have to live there after this is all said and done.

Agreed. I severed tied with this last weekend. It wasn' t pleasant, but they didn't even take the time to listen to any part of our story. They very quickly jumped to side with "their friend the PB" vs "the neighbor" (me) they thought they would help. Zero accountability for their involvement from original referral to convincing me to allow cashing of my most recent check.

I tend to agree with not dropping it at the civil level. Most contractors don't want to go through a suit, it then becomes a matter of public record. One thing I learned when the contractor is also the owner, sue both.

Interestingly enough, their most recent attorney communication made commitments for work on certain dates which have come and gone. So far, the PB has not followed the first 3 actions in accordance with his attorney's formal communication to us.

It just all goes into the pile of data we've been collecting. I am currently out of town and looking forward to meeting with a new PB on Friday and discuss options to move forward.

 

[carx7]

Thought I would drop a quick update. I have spoken to several pool builders and a few plaster companies. I've found a single company willing to take on the project at this time and his estimate is $30-$50k to fix/finish what I have. I owe $8900 on my contract.

We continue to find misleading information about the equipment and installation on our job. We do have some minor gunite issues. We need another step. The spa plumbing is incorrect and likely to require tear out and complete rebuild of the spa if we want to use jets. The company is now claiming that their inclusion of the Paralevel auto fill 2x in city documents was a typo as was inclusion of my spa air blower in the same document. Can't help but laugh at this point.

They have committed and reneged on several commitments, several times even though their attorney. I did take to some social media with very directed posts at them showing what they are doing and they did finally show up at remove the pile of gunite that has been in the yard for 6 months now. Some progress!

At this time I am going through the formal motions to ensure I am protected for a future potential lawsuit. These guys are also blatantly lying to/through their lawyer. I can't say much more about that at this time, but it is UNREAL some of the things that I now KNOW they are doing. Sheesh.

14 months and counting. No end date in sight.

 

[jamjam]

When you take it to social media try to keep your comments as devoid of emotion as possible and strictly factual with claims you can back up with data. People can tell who is telling the truth simply based on demeanor. This PB sounds like a POS - I would spend as much money as I could to inflict maximum repercussions on him.

 

[Bperry]

Thought I would drop a quick update. I have spoken to several pool builders and a few plaster companies. I've found a single company willing to take on the project at this time and his estimate is $30-$50k to fix/finish what I have. I owe $8900 on my contract.

We continue to find misleading information about the equipment and installation on our job. We do have some minor gunite issues. We need another step. The spa plumbing is incorrect and likely to require tear out and complete rebuild of the spa if we want to use jets. The company is now claiming that their inclusion of the Paralevel auto fill 2x in city documents was a typo as was inclusion of my spa air blower in the same document. Can't help but laugh at this point.

They have committed and reneged on several commitments, several times even though their attorney. I did take to some social media with very directed posts at them showing what they are doing and they did finally show up at remove the pile of gunite that has been in the yard for 6 months now. Some progress!

At this time I am going through the formal motions to ensure I am protected for a future potential lawsuit. These guys are also blatantly lying to/through their lawyer. I can't say much more about that at this time, but it is UNREAL some of the things that I now KNOW they are doing. Sheesh.

14 months and counting. No end date in sight.

Curious how pool builds normally handle schedule delays. Of course there’s inevitable small delays, but there’s got to be a point where legally it’s just out of contract!

 

[carx7]

Yes! No emotion. In fact they're pretty straight forward using quotes from themselves and images of their work. I think they were pretty self explanatory. I tried to removed the names a posted a few examples from my "presentation" of their work.

The city has been some helpful but also not. When talking to them they comments that the permit is good for 18 months.... LOL, who wants to build a pool for 18 months!!! I have a meeting with the lead building Development Services manager this week to see what else they might be able to do. Of the 6 people with permits from this PB in my city 2 have issues last longer than mine (but they are swimming), we make 3, and there is a 4th who is in a similar situation to us but 4 months less in their timeline. That makes 50-66% of customers with this PB in my small area with with major issues.

This last year has been a challenge with CoVid which has provided some people legitimate reasons for delay. This is well beyond that and we are continuing to collect examples of dishonestly. I think I finally got "the smoking gun" today. Waiting to hear back from my attorney.

I am finding that getting ANYONE to do anything to this pool is a serious issue. As we all know the industry is slammed and PBs are even less interested in engaging with projects like this one.

 

[Nikilyn]

Just curious if you’ve made any progress on your pool getting finished.

 

[kimkats]

I have such a big sad and mad for you after reading this mess..............This is unreal. I hope there is some news about him sitting on a pile of fire ants or such.

 

[Snoobug]

This is heartbreaking. I'm so sorry.

 

[carx7]

Hi,

Thanks all for checking in.

We did (FINALLY!!!!) finish (mostly) the pool 2 weeks ago. We were just shy of 1 week from being a full 18 month project. A few notes and details for those who have been following:

1) The builder all but abandoned the pool and never did show a serious effort to try to finsih the pool. I have $10k in attorney's fees trying to get him to do so or to quite.
2) The builder resulted to fabricating receipts for things on the pool (like the fact they used the wrong color grout on our substantial tile. Yup, the day the builder and our attorney's met on my property we pushed on grout color and they offered to provide a reciept. The following day I was presented a "receipt" from a well known local company for the grout that we had requested. Done deal right? Wrong. Something looked fishy so I drove to the store and asked for a reprint of the receipt #12345 which they provided. It was a QUOTE for the grout that was pulled the day I requested it. There was no record in this store of my builder haveing (EVER) purchased the color grout I used. They did have a historical receipt for a color grout from years ago that appears simliar to the one that was actually installed in my pool.

3) We talked to between 20 and 30 additional pool builders, fixers, plaster companies, etc, etc, etc and 90% would not touch the project. We did finally get a guy to help us finish. He actually finished the pool on a handshake. No contract. No money up front. Nothing. The guy is a God send.

4) We had add an autofill by drilling through existing gunite. No big deal really. but I still need to get it plumbed into my water lines so it fills.
5) We added a step so we didn't have a cliff getting into the pool.
6) Equipment is mostly installed, but my spa jets don't work AT ALL. NOTHING.
7) We're going to try adding a blower... but this was supposed to use venturi technology but piping was insufficiently sized, placed, so there is no sucking air.
8) I still need to get heaters working
9) Probably other stuff.

In addition to the $10k on attorneys we had to spend an extra ~$22k to get the pool to the current, mostly finished state.

Good news? It holds water and we actually swam for last holiday weekend!

A few other comments. Texas uses Deceptive Trade Practices to protect against this stuff instead of requiring contractors to be licensed. The trick is that I'm going to have to pay out the rear to try to recoup and that assumes I can collect.

We've now met 9 other people who are, or were, in a similar predicament as us with this builder. They are seriously bad news and I am not trying to save the world or anything, but they are advertising at our local youth baseball group with banners on the fence line. It's really sad to see.

Edited to add: Hayward has NOT been helpful. They responded and then ignore numerous (dozen(s)) of email to their help line. I finally got a response from someone at Hayward by reaching out (negatively) through youtube of all places to a marketing person. The response I did get provided (mostly) useless information. They did finally agree to honor the 5 year warranty I was promised in writing but wanted me to use a list of people who refused to touch my pool. Also not helpful. We'll see what happens when I go to file my warranty registration with them

 

[reggiehammond]

Good news? It holds water and we actually swam for last holiday weekend!

No pictures - COME ON!

Glad you were able to get it finished and good on the builder that got it straight.

 

[kimkats]

unreal! I am glad you were able to swim!

Now the spa--------hummmmmm It almost like the pipes are not hooked up or are blocked in some way. Will ANY air go through at all?

 

[Bperry]

Hi,

Thanks all for checking in.

We did (FINALLY!!!!) finish (mostly) the pool 2 weeks ago. We were just shy of 1 week from being a full 18 month project. A few notes and details for those who have been following:

1) The builder all but abandoned the pool and never did show a serious effort to try to finsih the pool. I have $10k in attorney's fees trying to get him to do so or to quite.
2) The builder resulted to fabricating receipts for things on the pool (like the fact they used the wrong color grout on our substantial tile. Yup, the day the builder and our attorney's met on my property we pushed on grout color and they offered to provide a reciept. The following day I was presented a "receipt" from a well known local company for the grout that we had requested. Done deal right? Wrong. Something looked fishy so I drove to the store and asked for a reprint of the receipt #12345 which they provided. It was a QUOTE for the grout that was pulled the day I requested it. There was no record in this store of my builder haveing (EVER) purchased the color grout I used. They did have a historical receipt for a color grout from years ago that appears simliar to the one that was actually installed in my pool.

3) We talked to between 20 and 30 additional pool builders, fixers, plaster companies, etc, etc, etc and 90% would not touch the project. We did finally get a guy to help us finish. He actually finished the pool on a handshake. No contract. No money up front. Nothing. The guy is a God send.

4) We had add an autofill by drilling through existing gunite. No big deal really. but I still need to get it plumbed into my water lines so it fills.
5) We added a step so we didn't have a cliff getting into the pool.
6) Equipment is mostly installed, but my spa jets don't work AT ALL. NOTHING.
7) We're going to try adding a blower... but this was supposed to use venturi technology but piping was insufficiently sized, placed, so there is no sucking air.
8) I still need to get heaters working
9) Probably other stuff.

In addition to the $10k on attorneys we had to spend an extra ~$22k to get the pool to the current, mostly finished state.

Good news? It holds water and we actually swam for last holiday weekend!

A few other comments. Texas uses Deceptive Trade Practices to protect against this stuff instead of requiring contractors to be licensed. The trick is that I'm going to have to pay out the rear to try to recoup and that assumes I can collect.

We've now met 9 other people who are, or were, in a similar predicament as us with this builder. They are seriously bad news and I am not trying to save the world or anything, but they are advertising at our local youth baseball group with banners on the fence line. It's really sad to see.

Edited to add: Hayward has NOT been helpful. They responded and then ignore numerous (dozen(s)) of email to their help line. I finally got a response from someone at Hayward by reaching out (negatively) through youtube of all places to a marketing person. The response I did get provided (mostly) useless information. They did finally agree to honor the 5 year warranty I was promised in writing but wanted me to use a list of people who refused to touch my pool. Also not helpful. We'll see what happens when I go to file my warranty registration with them

Really? no license to do pool construction? I’d think #2 would be grounds for “deceptive trade practices” penalty whatever that would be.

 

[Oswald]

Really? no license to do pool construction? I’d think #2 would be grounds for “deceptive trade practices” penalty whatever that would be.

I live in Texas, and that doesn't surprise me at all

 

[BigPapaSmurf]

I live in Texas, and that doesn't surprise me at all

Anyone, in Texas, with a pickup truck and pool brush can call themselves a “Pool” builder!

 

[koffey]

Name and shame, if this joke of a PB is still out there working than the community should be aware of them and know whom to stay clear of.

Sorry about the hardship OP.

 

[Bperry]

I live in Texas, and that doesn't surprise me at all

I’m curious is they offer licenses but just don’t require them. Wondering if there is a way to avoid the problem by asking to see the contractors license.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

In AZ we have a Registrar of Contractors (ROC) that controls and maintains licensing based on Arizona statues. Pool builders must be licensed and registered contractors that are bonded (money placed in trust) and insured (liability). Anyone quoting a "contract job" (basically anything built or renovated or improved) in excess of $1,000 must have an ROC license OR work for someone that has one (contractors are allowed to put subs and temporary employees under their license). If someone quotes and takes on contract job over $1,000 without a proper license, they can be prosecuted and fined by the state. The AZROC will go after unlicensed contractors but they lack enforcement resources so they need people to report unlicensed contractors which, unfortunately, many people won't do. But at least there are provisions in AZ state law to make doing what this pool builder did to the OP very costly. In AZ, a builder like that would be prosecuted and run out of business. Sounds like Texas is a little too lenient when it comes to contractors and trades people...

 

[Taylor1584]

Hi,

Thanks all for checking in.

We did (FINALLY!!!!) finish (mostly) the pool 2 weeks ago. We were just shy of 1 week from being a full 18 month project. A few notes and details for those who have been following:

1) The builder all but abandoned the pool and never did show a serious effort to try to finsih the pool. I have $10k in attorney's fees trying to get him to do so or to quite.
2) The builder resulted to fabricating receipts for things on the pool (like the fact they used the wrong color grout on our substantial tile. Yup, the day the builder and our attorney's met on my property we pushed on grout color and they offered to provide a reciept. The following day I was presented a "receipt" from a well known local company for the grout that we had requested. Done deal right? Wrong. Something looked fishy so I drove to the store and asked for a reprint of the receipt #12345 which they provided. It was a QUOTE for the grout that was pulled the day I requested it. There was no record in this store of my builder haveing (EVER) purchased the color grout I used. They did have a historical receipt for a color grout from years ago that appears simliar to the one that was actually installed in my pool.

3) We talked to between 20 and 30 additional pool builders, fixers, plaster companies, etc, etc, etc and 90% would not touch the project. We did finally get a guy to help us finish. He actually finished the pool on a handshake. No contract. No money up front. Nothing. The guy is a God send.

4) We had add an autofill by drilling through existing gunite. No big deal really. but I still need to get it plumbed into my water lines so it fills.
5) We added a step so we didn't have a cliff getting into the pool.
6) Equipment is mostly installed, but my spa jets don't work AT ALL. NOTHING.
7) We're going to try adding a blower... but this was supposed to use venturi technology but piping was insufficiently sized, placed, so there is no sucking air.
8) I still need to get heaters working
9) Probably other stuff.

In addition to the $10k on attorneys we had to spend an extra ~$22k to get the pool to the current, mostly finished state.

Good news? It holds water and we actually swam for last holiday weekend!

A few other comments. Texas uses Deceptive Trade Practices to protect against this stuff instead of requiring contractors to be licensed. The trick is that I'm going to have to pay out the rear to try to recoup and that assumes I can collect.

We've now met 9 other people who are, or were, in a similar predicament as us with this builder. They are seriously bad news and I am not trying to save the world or anything, but they are advertising at our local youth baseball group with banners on the fence line. It's really sad to see.

Edited to add: Hayward has NOT been helpful. They responded and then ignore numerous (dozen(s)) of email to their help line. I finally got a response from someone at Hayward by reaching out (negatively) through youtube of all places to a marketing person. The response I did get provided (mostly) useless information. They did finally agree to honor the 5 year warranty I was promised in writing but wanted me to use a list of people who refused to touch my pool. Also not helpful. We'll see what happens when I go to file my warranty registration with them

I used Deceptive Trade Practices against a builder for new build construction in Houston. It took down to the wire but he paid. My attorney said he knew he would lose in court and did not want to go to court for 2 reasons. 1. it becomes public record and in Texas you can be awarded double or triple damages. And yes it cost me alot of lawyer fees. He did pay for the attorney fees that were direct but we realized since he took the money from me for over several months I could have demanded interest. Good luck. I have the second round to go, and yes it will cost me more money but now I am mad, if it cost just a bit more than I get I may do it anyway. I am so mad. I am so sorry you had to go thru all this. Good for you going to check on the grout. These SLEEZY people really don't know how far we will g it they make us good and mad.

 

[Nikilyn]

I’m glad you are swimming. We need pictures of the finished product though .