A chunk of gunite came off the wall

[gregmp]

I was going to re-cement some loose tiles, but when I pulled on the tiles a large chunk of concrete came off the wall. The hole is about ½” at the deepest part.



View from the side. A bad day, but at least I didn't drop my phone taking these pictures.


These tiles are pretty firmly attached to the chunk of gunite.



I’ve reattached tiles in a couple spots in recent years, not as many as were loose this time. I’ve now read that the loose tiles and tile chipping are probably due to not replacing the seal (Deck-o-seal) between the coping and deck often enough, with water freezing behind the pool wall.

If I were to fix this myself, how should I do it? I have on hand 3 lbs E-Z Patch 3 (thin set tile cement) and 3 lbs E-Z Patch 4 (grout). Home Depot is near, and I can order stuff online. Local pool stores have nothing useful. If the hole should be chiseled, I’ll probably leave this repair to a pro.

If I don’t repair it myself, and if it will take a while to get someone out, would it be bad to fill the pool again so we can run the pump? (The drain ties into the skimmer. Can’t run the pump if the water is low.) I’ve read that water will slowly leak through the exposed gunite, but I don’t know how slowly or if that will cause more problems.

We are considering replastering next year. The 18-year-old plaster is quite rough and has yellowed, but otherwise seems to be in good condition. The tiles have the build-up that you can see in the photos, and we’ll probably have the tiles replaced too. I may ask questions about replastering and tile in other threads, but I mention it here because it could influence how we deal with the immediate problem.

Thanks!

 

[kimkats]

What I find very interesting is how the water stains are right under where that came off.

There are couple of guys who can really answer this. I will put in a call to them. If anyone else has any idea feel free to chime in! The more ideas the better!

 

[gregmp]

I was so focused on the missing tiles that I didn't notice another section on the other side of the pool has bulged out from the wall, cracking the plaster. And I found another section that sounds hollow when tapped. I think this has moved from "how can I fix it" to "what should we do now, while we start planning for replastering and tile replacement?"

 

[kimkats]

Yeah that does jump the time line up some!

I would look in my wallet to see what it says. Is it fat enough to do a re-plaster and tile job within the next month or so? You might have to look close at the coping as well as it does look like that is where some of the water is coming from. If it is not fat enough yet let us know so we can help you plan for the next step.

I would start looking around in your area for Pool people. Have you seen any pools being built in your area? Make a note of their names and start calling. Try to get at least 5 quotes on what needs to be done and HOW they will do it. If you can find the GOOD subs that do the bulk of in your area you can ask them who they would have do the work on their pool. After a while you will start hearing the same names..........good or bad..........go from there to find more subs to do the work.

Kim

 

[blakeusa]

The first picture where the tile took off some concrete is no big deal.

Just replace the tiles with thin set tile adhesive. Fill the entire 1/2 inch area with adhesive and reattach the tiles. Grout when done.

You should be able to pop off the old tiles using a blade. I have had great success with Ladicrete 257 tile thin set. Its made for underwater applications.

Now why did it pop off to begin with? Most likely water behind the tile/ concrete from freeze thaw cycle.

The second picture is more troublesome as how is the water getting behind the plaster?

At 18 years the plaster may be failing allowing water to get behind it.. but that does not explain the first picture as there is not plaster under your tiles.

 

[kimkats]

The first picture where the tile took off some concrete is no big deal.

Just replace the tiles with thin set tile adhesive. Fill the entire 1/2 inch area with adhesive and reattach the tiles. Grout when done.

You should be able to pop off the old tiles using a blade. I have had great success with Ladicrete 257 tile thin set. Its made for underwater applications.

Now why did it pop off to begin with? Most likely water behind the tile/ concrete from freeze thaw cycle.

The second picture is more troublesome as how is the water getting behind the plaster?

At 18 years the plaster may be failing allowing water to get behind it.. but that does not explain the first picture as there is not plaster under your tiles.

This is someone who knows of which he speaks. Follow his lead.

Thank you Blake!

 

[PoolguyinCT]

Deck moved & the pool lost.

How’s the deck coping interface looking? Mastic in tact?

I see the separation of coping mud bed & beam.
Bet ya lunch, you get a little echo if you knock on it.

 

[gregmp]

The second picture is more troublesome as how is the water getting behind the plaster?

At 18 years the plaster may be failing allowing water to get behind it.. but that does not explain the first picture as there is not plaster under your tiles.

I think both are basically the same thing: freeze/thaw behind the concrete stressed the concrete and tiles. In the first photo it was the top tiles that pushed out, and in the last photo it is the bottom tiles that are bulging out and detached some plaster when they moved. If I were to pull gently on the tiles in the last photo, I'd probably pull off 10x2 tiles or 10x3, and maybe some concrete too.

 

[gregmp]

Deck moved & the pool lost.

How’s the deck coping interface looking? Mastic in tact?

I see the separation of coping mud bed & beam.
Bet ya lunch, you get a little echo if you knock on it.

Deck-o-Seal was replaced two years ago, but was in bad shape when it was replaced. There are some spots now where for 2-3" inches it has pulled away from deck or coping a little bit.

 

[PoolguyinCT]

Well guess the old failed joint caught up with ya..

Don’t sweat it, it can easily be restored when you renovate.

One of my favorite expression jokes is

: what’s the worst thing you can do to a pool? - build it in New England.

I may have a very dry sense of humor.

 

[gregmp]

I see the separation of coping mud bed & beam.
Bet ya lunch, you get a little echo if you knock on it.

Rapping on the coping, it sounds solid. But the deck has a hollow sound next to the coping in the two areas that have tile trouble. Other areas of the deck sound solid.

Here's a curious thing: In the first photo, the plaster is wet for about 3" above the water, but in the center of the photo there is a spot that is wet all the way up to the tile, 6". It still looks like that today, two days after I lowered the water. It is the only place on the pool that looks like that.

 

[gregmp]

This is the coping before the seal was replaced two years ago. I think the deck sank over the years. Some of the deck is close to even with the coping, but most is lower by as much as 1/2".

The pool:

 

[PoolguyinCT]

Was it built by a Connecticut outfit?

 

[blakeusa]

So to me it looks like there was or is water getting under the coping and behind the tiles.

Does water pool at all on the deck in those areas?

The problem looks like again water under the bond beam and behind the tile and freeze thaw.

If I look at the picture again - behind your fence looks like the area is sloped and the water could be draining from the hill behind your pool. Is that area wet or does it get wet a lot?

Concrete is porous so its possible that if that area is wet ... that is where your moisture problem is coming from... plus the old plaster.

Nice looking pool otherwise.

Think you could still remove the other area where is pealing and patch the plaster and reset tiles... but really need to get to the root cause of why it happened in the first place.

May buy you some time to repair.

 

[gregmp]

Was it built by a Connecticut outfit?

It was a large Massachusetts PB. There were several problems during construction, and I could complain about the PB, but I have to say we've been very happy with the pool. We went into it knowing nothing except that we wanted a pool, and they designed one that's been just right for us.

 

[gregmp]

So to me it looks like there was or is water getting under the coping and behind the tiles.

Does water pool at all on the deck in those areas?

The problem looks like again water under the bond beam and behind the tile and freeze thaw.

If I look at the picture again - behind your fence looks like the area is sloped and the water could be draining from the hill behind your pool. Is that area wet or does it get wet a lot?

Concrete is porous so its possible that if that area is wet ... that is where your moisture problem is coming from... plus the old plaster.

We never have standing or flowing water on the deck, just what rain lands there. There is a steep grade from the road down to the yard, 2-3 vertical feet, then a more gentle slope across the yard. The yard on the right in this photo gets pretty soggy in the spring, but the ground by the road doesn't see a lot of water. No water flows down from the road. (This is two 2007 photos stitched together, so there's some warping.)

The drainage was a concern during the build. The excavator was screaming at the PB that the original design, with the pool sitting lower and a retaining wall in the hill on the street side, wouldn't work. They redesigned it on the fly to have the pool higher and the wall as you see it. The PB put in a french drain along the street side, into a dry well behind the tree at the left of the photo. I wasn't there when they put in the drain, so I don't know if they did a good job. I suspect not.

 

[kimkats]

It sure is pretty! I hate that it is messing up but hopefully things will work out and get fixed.

Kim