A Bicarb Start-up guide for TFP members

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Your tap water is great to use for new plaster pools. No need to add sodium bicarbonate and doing a Bicarb startup.
Just fill the pool with that water and slowly lower the TA over time.
 
As noted in the instructions, "The TA can remain high for one month as long as the pH is maintained below 8.2." and "After 3 to 4 weeks, begin lowering the TA to the proper range as recommended by TFP. Use the Acid Demand test for proper dosages of acid." If the Bicarb startup is done properly, then adding acid to maintain the pH during the first month will have the TA drop, but if it drops by no more than 20 ppm per week then that's slow. After 3-4 weeks, it's OK to drop faster if you target a lower pH and even faster if you aerate the water.
 
Thank you for the information. It is hard to deal with these re-plastering companies. Some never even respond to requests for them to look at the pool, but the others aren't great when it comes to communicating, either. So far, I've gotten bids from 3 of the 6 I contacted. One company wants 30% more money than the other companies. The one I'm leaning toward is well familiar with the OnBalance program, but has a problem with waiting 6 hours to fill the pool, saying that would cause the upper step to be dry for 30 hours. He recommends starting the fill right away and adding a bottle of Startup Tech. He says Startup Tech skews the results from test kits for 2 days, but it keeps calcium in solution rather than creating scale on the surface of the new plaster. His plaster mix is 6 bags (600#) of marble sand, 4 bags (360#) of cement, 1 bag (50#) of pozzolans, no more than 2% of calcium chloride (less if the temperature is warmer) and 20-22 gallons of water (pH is 7.3, TA is 290 and CH is 330). He also said I should use a brush vac for the first 7 days, not returning my pool cleaner to the pool till after that 7 day period. Here are his start up instructions. Please comment on what was told to me by this company.

Plaster Start-up Instructions
Items Required:
Extension pole, Nylon pool brush, Vacuum brush head (not roller vac), Vacuum hose, 4 way
test kit or test strips, 5 gallon bucket.
Liquids Required:
4 gallons Chlorine & 2 gallons Muriatic Acid, Conditioner, Chelating/sequestering agent.
Note: A clean filter is recommended, as this will give you the best suction and recirculation.
The filter may need to be cleaned again after Start-up, check pressure.
Gallons = Surface area x average depth x 7.5
(Example 15’ x 30’= 450 x 4’ x 7.5 = 13,500 gallons)
The purpose of the Start-up is to remove the Plaster Dust (calcium, calcium hydroxide) from
the surface of the plaster and balance the pool chemistry. The goal is to have the entire pool
surface dust free ASAP. At the same time, you will be adjusting the P.H. against your alkalinity
and hardness readings. Once you have achieve this, chlorine can be entered.
Day 1:
1) Set timer to run pump for 20 hrs. (This will allow dust to settle between days.)
2) Turn on pump.
3) TEST POOL WATER- Hardness, Alkalinity, P.H., (This will determine how much acid to
place in water.)
4) Adding acid to pool, start by placing 1-2 quarts of acid in 5 gal. bucket with 3 gal. of pool
water. Walk and pour solution into pool avoid pouring over steps and benches.
5) Add Chelating/Sequestering agent. (This should be added like the acid above.)
6) Start vacuum, try to go over as much of the surface as possible, steps, coves, walls, floor,
go slow and over lap strokes. (Same for spa.)
7) Re-check P.H. and add accordingly.
8) BRUSH ENTIRE POOL (Be diligent, this also stirs in additional acid.)
Day 2:
Use the above steps of day 1 starting at #3 through #8
(Your trying to achieve a dust free pool ASAP.)
It is critical to adjust P.H. against the Hardness and Alkalinity readings.
Day 3:
(Same as day 2.)
Day 4:
If pool is not DUST FREE, continue with steps #3-#8.
If pool is now DUST FREE, P.H. and Alkalinity are adjusted accordingly. Chlorine can now be
place in pool. (Chlorine can be poured directly into the pool, avoid pouring it in just one area,
walk around pool. Do Not Over Chlorinate, this causes metals to fall out. 1qt. - 1/2 gallon at
one time, brush in, recheck after 4 hrs.)
Brush entire pool.
Reset pump timer to turn over entire gallonage of pool water once a day, 4-8 hrs.
Day 5 - Day 6:
Brush and adjust chemistry.
Day 7:
If Chemicals are in balanced ranges and are stable, liquid or dry conditioner can now be
added.
If dry conditioner, is being used, start with a 5 gal bucket with 3 gallons of hot water. Place
conditioner into bucket, stir in and then pour solution directly into skimmer.
If liquid conditioner is being used, pour directly into skimmer.
This should be done at the beginning of the pump cycle.
DO NOT POUR EITHER IN POOL.
Floating chlorinators and or tab feeders can now be used.
Floating style chlorinators should be tethered and not allowed to float over steps, benches, and
should not have access to skimmer throat.
Automatic pool cleaners can now be used.
 
See this link for proper plastering practices. Ten Guidelines for Quality Pool Plaster

Their instructions are fairly good.

In my opinion, adding just six hours to a total of 30 hours for steps to be submerged isn't going to make a major difference.
However, in hot weather, I would suggest they (or you could) place a tent or plastic cover over the entire pool while filling. That would be a best practice to follow. That would resolve most concerns.

If they limit the addition of calcium chloride to one percent, you shouldn't have much plaster dust form at all. Just wait six hours - or that won't be the case. The bowl of the pool will be negatively affected if there is no wait time.
If you are having color plaster, then no calcium chloride should be added.

Understand that with your TA at 290 and the CH is 330, that would just be like performing a Bicarb start-up. Virtually no plaster dust should form.
 
I passed those guidelines along to them, already. The owner called me and told me he is very familiar with the OnBalance program and said it was written by people who haven't had experience as plasterers, whereas his company has been plastering since the 1950s. We went through all the guidelines, and the only one he disagreed with was the fill delay, but he said every situation is slightly different, and they need to be able to be flexible to handle the needs of the particular pool without being limited by any guidelines presented to them by the customer. I didn't know about pozzolans before, but it sounds like using it would be helpful to make the plaster harder. He said the 20-22 gallons of water are necessary to get the proper mix, allowing the plaster to be shot onto the walls. I won't be adding the acid, but what are your thoughts on Startup Tech and the Chelating/Sequestering agent (and everything else I mentioned above). I'm not sure what that agent is, but his description of Startup Tech seemed to make sense. I'm leaning toward following your 6 hour delay, but I fear that might void the warranty.

I appreciate your feedback.
 
My father also began plastering pools in the 1950's, and I worked for him for five years in the early 70's. He believed in producing quality plaster. It was his standard policy to wait an average of six hours before starting the water.
And we advertised that plaster would last 20 years, not the 5 to 10 years that is often stated today by some plasterers.

It is a no-brainer that plaster needs some hardening time after troweling before being submerged in water. Water can dissolve the surface of unhardened pool plaster. The American Concrete Institute has documented this for concrete flat-work. The bottom of the pool is the last area to be troweled and finished. Therefore, it needs time to harden just like the walls and shallow end receive before getting submerged in water. I have conducted a study on this issue, and have proven that early submersion is harmful. There is no other study that has even tried to prove otherwise. Further, some quartz pools are allowed to remain dry for 24 hours before being filled by water and without problems.

See this link for this topic: Research Reveals Need for Pool Plastering Standards

The product "Startup Tech" generally works well. But it should be obvious to all that it still requires good quality plaster to produce good results.
 
I tend to agree with what you are saying, so I plan on waiting before filling the pool. I'll run your test by the contractor, just to make sure the warranty won't be voided.

When you say Startup Tech generally works well, is it something you'd recommend for a plain white plaster pool? What can you tell me about the Chelating/Sequestering agent. If it is needed, what do I buy? Do you see any other concerns based on his mix ratio?

This contractor's use of 20-22 gallons of water / 360# of cement leads to a ratio or .56 - .61, which is high according to your standards. Is it possible to pump plaster as thick as the .44 ratio you suggest (15.8 gallons water / 360# of cement) or do you suggest another way of applying the plaster?
 
Water weighs 8.335 lbs. per gallon, not 10 lbs. as your formula indicates. And generally, cement bags weigh about 94 lbs. each. So 4 bags of cement equals 376 lbs. But perhaps some material suppliers packaged with a different amount.
Most plaster pumps will push through plaster with a ratio of .46 which is considered a good thick ratio.

Startup Tech works with white plaster, but with your type of tap water, it probably isn't needed. Sequester products are generally a good idea, especially with hard water such as yours. Your water may contain a small amount of iron, so yes, adding that is a good preventative measure to take.
 

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Thank you for that information. I was concerned when I read 10.02#/gallon on the Internet. So it looks like I want to keep them as close to 20 gallons as possible.

Can you recommend a sequester product?

Sequesters seem to need low pH and TA, according to their directions. How does this work, when you say to keep the pH and TA up during the startup?
 
As shown in this link the density of water is around 8.33 pounds per gallon for the typical temperatures encountered in fill water and heated pool water. It goes from 8.343 at 50ºC to 8.304 at 90ºC. I don't know what source you used on the Internet to get 10.02, but obviously that's wrong.
 
To help reduce the amount of sodium bicarbonate to be added, for your start-up, raise the alkalinity from the tap water reading to about 250+ ppm, minimum. When you have the pH at 7.8 or below (should be accomplished within two days), then add calcium chloride to raise the calcium hardness level to 150 ppm. Then wait two days and then raise the calcium level to 200 ppm. Just make sure that you have the pH under 7.8 when you add the calcium chloride. Brush the pool after adding those chemicals so that nothing sticks onto the plaster. After three weeks, then lower alkalinity to desired level. That should work well for your pool.
 
Hello onBalance! Thanks so much for a great thread. I’ll be getting my pool resurfaced with 50% quartz here next month. Tested our tap water today and the numbers are 50 ppm CH and 460 TA. Would you say to just go ahead and fill up even though pH is 8.2+ or should I try and add some muriatic acid to the fill water?
 
The tap water is fine as is to fill your pool. But double check the TA level. Sounds higher than what is most common.
Add acid periodically as it fills and adjust and keep the pH below 8.2. Should work very well.
 
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