Just shoot me now. Been reading on the site about the skimmer vs sock and nobody seems to talk about directly adding to the pool. If I keep the swim jets on all night, do you think the cya will dissolve faster?
Accidentally added pH Up instead of down.
- Thread starter christianday
- Start date
Did you pour it into the deep end? It will probably make its way into the filter either way. Just dont backwash for the next week.
I have a cartridge filter so I don't think it can backwash. How long before it's safe to swim?
And yes, I added it to the deep end.
And yes, I added it to the deep end.
The biggest worry is it sitting against the liner for days in a big pile. You are plaster though, so I doubt it would have any effect even if this is the case. Just brush that area really well for the next few days 1-2x to be sure to keep it moving around.
- - - Updated - - -
Depends, what is your pH right now?
- - - Updated - - -
If you are at/under 6.8, I would stay out. Under 7.2, I wouldnt open my eyes underwater.
- - - Updated - - -
BTW, CYA takes a week to fully measure on tests. Maybe even longer for you since you just threw it in.
I would use whatever CYA level you targeted as your current level, regardless of what your CYA test reads until that point. So bump up your FC to the target associated with a CYA level of 70-80.
- - - Updated - - -
Depends, what is your pH right now?
- - - Updated - - -
If you are at/under 6.8, I would stay out. Under 7.2, I wouldnt open my eyes underwater.
- - - Updated - - -
BTW, CYA takes a week to fully measure on tests. Maybe even longer for you since you just threw it in.
I would use whatever CYA level you targeted as your current level, regardless of what your CYA test reads until that point. So bump up your FC to the target associated with a CYA level of 70-80.
Ok. I read the recommended levels page and the FC for my target CYA of 70 is 5. My FC is already at 5.5 so I guess I'm good. However, won't the FC go up as the CYA goes up?
I've got the chlorination time running at 30% of filter pump time (3.6 hours out of 12 hours total run time). I'm wondering if I should break up the schedule so that the filter runs for 5 hour intervals twice per day or something, based on times we don't generally swim. We've got this Hayward Omnilogic that allows me to change the filter schedule (and pretty much everything else) from my phone.
I just read the pH and it's exactly 7.2! Yay! I imagine the CYA may lower it more over the week but if I aerate enough, I doubt it. I can run the swim jets all day tomorrow and it will probably up the pH and (if I read correctly) not raise the TA (which I haven't retested yet).
There's nothing sitting in a pile anywhere. Between the pool vacuum that runs whenever the filter is on (and I'm keeping it on beyond its normal shut off time due to the CYA being added), and the swim jets basically moving everything around constantly (though I have shut them off for now out of courtesy to my next door neighbor but I may schedule them to auto turn at 8am or so), I think this will dissolve sooner than normal. I should YouTube these swim jets. They turn the whole pool into a river.
I've got the chlorination time running at 30% of filter pump time (3.6 hours out of 12 hours total run time). I'm wondering if I should break up the schedule so that the filter runs for 5 hour intervals twice per day or something, based on times we don't generally swim. We've got this Hayward Omnilogic that allows me to change the filter schedule (and pretty much everything else) from my phone.
I just read the pH and it's exactly 7.2! Yay! I imagine the CYA may lower it more over the week but if I aerate enough, I doubt it. I can run the swim jets all day tomorrow and it will probably up the pH and (if I read correctly) not raise the TA (which I haven't retested yet).
There's nothing sitting in a pile anywhere. Between the pool vacuum that runs whenever the filter is on (and I'm keeping it on beyond its normal shut off time due to the CYA being added), and the swim jets basically moving everything around constantly (though I have shut them off for now out of courtesy to my next door neighbor but I may schedule them to auto turn at 8am or so), I think this will dissolve sooner than normal. I should YouTube these swim jets. They turn the whole pool into a river.
I am not sure I understand your question, so I will answer it two ways.
Your CYA rising will not cause your FC to rise. If you somehow instantly added and dissolved CYA in to your pool, your FC would not instantly go up as well.
Your CYA rising will cause your pool to hold FC better. Therefore your SWG at its current run time will seem to produce more chlorine. It is not actually making more, it just is not being lost as fast. You will probably have to turn your SWG down slightly.
Your CYA rising will not cause your FC to rise. If you somehow instantly added and dissolved CYA in to your pool, your FC would not instantly go up as well.
Your CYA rising will cause your pool to hold FC better. Therefore your SWG at its current run time will seem to produce more chlorine. It is not actually making more, it just is not being lost as fast. You will probably have to turn your SWG down slightly.
Scuba_Steve: yes, that definitely answers my question. I had the SWG chlorinating for about 3.6 hours out of its total 12 hour schedule. I just changed it to run from 6am to 11am and then again from 3pm to 7pm to space it out a little more but only run for ten hours. I've got the SWG set now to chlorinate for about 3 hours of that total but will take it down if the chlorine runs higher due to the CYA saving more of it. 3 hours a day doesn't seem like a lot of chlorine time but maybe because the SWG is doing it at intervals, it's not that bad.
As for the pH, I noticed that Clorox re-markets many of the things it it normally markets for manual chlorine pools under its My Salt Water Pool line except for pH Up. I've read that pH runs high in SWG but the Clorox decision sorta tells me they ran the numbers and realized pH Up wouldn't sell for an SWG. My guess is that this 7.2 will rise faster than the CYA will bring it down.
As for the pH, I noticed that Clorox re-markets many of the things it it normally markets for manual chlorine pools under its My Salt Water Pool line except for pH Up. I've read that pH runs high in SWG but the Clorox decision sorta tells me they ran the numbers and realized pH Up wouldn't sell for an SWG. My guess is that this 7.2 will rise faster than the CYA will bring it down.
p.s. it may bear mentioning that the first five weeks or so that we had the pool, we had the Hayward ProLogic Panel. I think the pool builder did something weird to it because it seemed to be on super-chlorinate at least four days out of the week. I am wondering if this is why the chlorine levels are that high, though I would think they would have gone down by now. We've had the OmniLogic for about two months now and I'm in total control of the chlorination from my phone.
You are more than likely correct about your pH not falling any more. BTW, as far as I know the My Salt Pool line is the exact same products as the normal line. They just cost more because they are "designed for saltwater".
Congrats for finally getting your pH in line btw! Monitor it at least every few days, and keep a bottle of MA around so it stays put. I would never let it get above 7.5-7.6 if I were you until your TA starts to come down. Also I would stop using the dry acid. I know MA sucks with the fumes. Just stay upwind though.
Congrats for finally getting your pH in line btw! Monitor it at least every few days, and keep a bottle of MA around so it stays put. I would never let it get above 7.5-7.6 if I were you until your TA starts to come down. Also I would stop using the dry acid. I know MA sucks with the fumes. Just stay upwind though.
@Scuba_Steve: yeah, I realized that when I was in the store about the My Salt Pool line, which is why I bought the regular ones, except for the CYA since home depot was out of the other one. Always gotta read those labels.
I'm definitely going to get more MA but I'm getting the smaller dilution without the weird additives. I just need to find who sells it. I don't want the acid magic or any of those kinds but those fumes are just something else. Thank you again for all your help.
I'm definitely going to get more MA but I'm getting the smaller dilution without the weird additives. I just need to find who sells it. I don't want the acid magic or any of those kinds but those fumes are just something else. Thank you again for all your help.
- Jun 12, 2011
- 3,767
- Pool Size
- 19500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pureline Crystal Pure 60,000
When I pour acid I put the jug half in the water and tip it so that a small steam flows out the few inches from the top of the jug and the surface of the water. This way there is very little exposure to the air and the fumes are contained. If the fumes are really a problem for you go to Harbor Freight and buy an air purifying respirator. They are only about $10-15. That way you can use the standard 31% MA to lower the TA. It saves money time and you know exactly what you are putting in there.
With a SWG and the amount of aeration you have in that pool rising pH is always going to be a problem. You need to keep a very close watch on the pH. Allowing it to get high like it was will cause serious problems including calcium scaling. If yo maintain a close watch on your pH and keep in the correct rage at all time the TA should naturally come down a bit. The good news about that is that with lower TA the pH becomes more stable and doesn't rise as fast. There are ways to speed up lowering the TA and to further buffer pH "bounce", but first lets just get control of all your numbers and get them in the correct range.
With a SWG and the amount of aeration you have in that pool rising pH is always going to be a problem. You need to keep a very close watch on the pH. Allowing it to get high like it was will cause serious problems including calcium scaling. If yo maintain a close watch on your pH and keep in the correct rage at all time the TA should naturally come down a bit. The good news about that is that with lower TA the pH becomes more stable and doesn't rise as fast. There are ways to speed up lowering the TA and to further buffer pH "bounce", but first lets just get control of all your numbers and get them in the correct range.
@Chiefwej: I'm probably still going to use the diluted but I'll give it a chance with the respirator. MA really bothers me.
@scuba_steve: so here's a wonder. After a few hours of the swim jets running, the pH is now at around 7.9!!!! Ug!!! I'm starting the rest of the tests now. I'm hoping the TA is still down. This is so aggravating.
@scuba_steve: so here's a wonder. After a few hours of the swim jets running, the pH is now at around 7.9!!!! Ug!!! I'm starting the rest of the tests now. I'm hoping the TA is still down. This is so aggravating.
In a way that is a good thing. It just means that you will knock your TA down much quicker. The more often and larger quantities of MA that you use, the faster your TA will drop.
The more your TA drops, the slower your pH will rise.
Your obviously just going to have to beat this with a baseball bat for a week or so. Keep beating it down, and eventually it will become manageable.
BTW, what is the TA and pH of your fill water?
The more your TA drops, the slower your pH will rise.
Your obviously just going to have to beat this with a baseball bat for a week or so. Keep beating it down, and eventually it will become manageable.
BTW, what is the TA and pH of your fill water?
So ... here's yesterday's test vs. early this morning's vs. today's,
YESTERDAY:
This is after the previous week of adding 18oz pH down (dry), 18oz pH up (accidentally) and another 18oz pH down to correct for the pH Up:
pH: 8.2
FC: 5.5
CC: 1.5
TC: 7
TA: 140
CH: 500
CYA: 40
EARLY THIS MORNING (1am)
After adding 18oz of dry acid an hour prior:
pH: 8.2
EARLY THIS MORNING (3am)
After adding 40oz of 31.5MA and 42oz dry cya a half hour prior:
pH: 7.2
TODAY (3pm)
This is after running the four swim jets for four hours to see what effect aeration would have:
pH: 7.9
FC: 9
CC: 0
TC: 9
TA: 130
CH: 425
CYA: 55
* I'm guessing my chlorination percentage for the SWG needs to go down even lower because the FC went higher (though the CC went lower).
* I'm guessing my dry CYA isn't fully dissolved since I didn't hit the target of 70.
* Not sure why the CH went down 75.
* The TA has only gone down from 140 to 130 and the pH is still pretty high.
Any idea if I should wait longer for the CYA to sink in before adding anything else?
YESTERDAY:
This is after the previous week of adding 18oz pH down (dry), 18oz pH up (accidentally) and another 18oz pH down to correct for the pH Up:
pH: 8.2
FC: 5.5
CC: 1.5
TC: 7
TA: 140
CH: 500
CYA: 40
EARLY THIS MORNING (1am)
After adding 18oz of dry acid an hour prior:
pH: 8.2
EARLY THIS MORNING (3am)
After adding 40oz of 31.5MA and 42oz dry cya a half hour prior:
pH: 7.2
TODAY (3pm)
This is after running the four swim jets for four hours to see what effect aeration would have:
pH: 7.9
FC: 9
CC: 0
TC: 9
TA: 130
CH: 425
CYA: 55
* I'm guessing my chlorination percentage for the SWG needs to go down even lower because the FC went higher (though the CC went lower).
* I'm guessing my dry CYA isn't fully dissolved since I didn't hit the target of 70.
* Not sure why the CH went down 75.
* The TA has only gone down from 140 to 130 and the pH is still pretty high.
Any idea if I should wait longer for the CYA to sink in before adding anything else?
Here's some scariness. I just started testing the water from my tap. Granted, the kitchen faucet is aerated, but the pH has gotta be well over 8.2 since it's way more magenta than even the 8.2 block is. It's downright hot pink! And we shower in that!
I would not touch your CYA for at least a week.
Just keep adding MA, 3x a day if you have to. Look at people who are SLAMing their pools. They often have to add bleach 6x a day at first. You are doing the same but with MA instead. If you want to slow things down, keep those swim jets off. If it were me though I would aerate as much as I coud and keep beating it down quickly. Get it over with.
- - - Updated - - -
Well there is your problem! Do you have a water softener? (obviously not...)
- - - Updated - - -
You might want to look in to getting one!
Just keep adding MA, 3x a day if you have to. Look at people who are SLAMing their pools. They often have to add bleach 6x a day at first. You are doing the same but with MA instead. If you want to slow things down, keep those swim jets off. If it were me though I would aerate as much as I coud and keep beating it down quickly. Get it over with.
- - - Updated - - -
Well there is your problem! Do you have a water softener? (obviously not...)
- - - Updated - - -
You might want to look in to getting one!
Scuba_Steve: the freaking pool water is more pH balanced than the house! I ran the full range of TH100 tests on the tap water, which is aerated, but still!
pH: > 8.2 (way higher, given how hot magenta it is)
FC: 1
CC: 3
TC: 4
TA: 140
CH: 175
CYA: 0
Questions and comments:
* All I can think about is that I need to use Calgon water softener in the washing machine. Do they still even make that? I never want to bathe in this again!
* If the tap water CH is 175, how the heck did it get up to 425 and 500?!?!?!? Could this be from all the brushing of the plaster when the pool was first filled with water? The pool builder was brushing it for days.
* How is it all that dry and muriatic acid only brought the final TA down to 130 from 140??? That's just insane!
* I'm definitely getting a water softener and maybe even some other kinds of pre-filters for the home. I'm afraid to even take a bath. LOL
pH: > 8.2 (way higher, given how hot magenta it is)
FC: 1
CC: 3
TC: 4
TA: 140
CH: 175
CYA: 0
Questions and comments:
* All I can think about is that I need to use Calgon water softener in the washing machine. Do they still even make that? I never want to bathe in this again!
* If the tap water CH is 175, how the heck did it get up to 425 and 500?!?!?!? Could this be from all the brushing of the plaster when the pool was first filled with water? The pool builder was brushing it for days.
* How is it all that dry and muriatic acid only brought the final TA down to 130 from 140??? That's just insane!
* I'm definitely getting a water softener and maybe even some other kinds of pre-filters for the home. I'm afraid to even take a bath. LOL
And just for grins and giggles, I tested the water from the water purifier in the fridge:
pH: > 8.2
FC: 0
CC: 0
TC: 0
TA: 130
CH: 125
CYA: 0
It seems to get the chlorine out but changes little else.
pH: > 8.2
FC: 0
CC: 0
TC: 0
TA: 130
CH: 125
CYA: 0
It seems to get the chlorine out but changes little else.
Christianday, high PH in tap water is not a health risk and "could" indicate hard water. Very low PH or acidic water would be more concerning as likely to contain some metals. Hard water can cause aesthetic issues with formation of scale deposits on hard surfaces but is not "unsafe"