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Thread: thill59

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    thill59

    [Edit:Three threads merged:jjparrish]

    Hello! I'm from southern Arkansas and found this site the other day. We have been having problems with our pool since we opened it in May. And we are not new to this. Have had the pool for about 12 years now and 2 liners. I would like to ask a couple of questions but will first post my test results.....if I understand them right. I just got a new test kit today, k2006, any way this is what I got.
    FC 1
    CC .5
    TA 180
    Ph 7
    CYA 100+
    CH 750

    I am interested in trying the BBB method. So if I understand these numbers right and my CYA and CH is so high I am going to have to drain water from my pool to get them down. Is this right? Of course 12 years of using trichlor and dichlor. Is this the reason for the high readings? Is there anything else we can do to lower these? Right now our pool is cloudy. Can see the bottom in the shallow end, but not quite in the deep end (8'). Of course it is a lot better then it was when we opened it. Our cover got a few holes in it and when we uncovered it, it was a SLIME POND!!!! Mosquitos would have loved it! Any advice would be greatful!
    17,500 gal, IG, vinyl liner, 16 x 32 rect., 19" Jacuzzi Sand Filter, 1 HP Jacuzzi Pump, located in South Arkansas

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    Re: thill59

    First of all Welcome to TFP!!

    Second, thank you for the sig, which shows you've already done the suggested reading

    The only way to lower the cya and calcium levels is to drain part of the pool water and refill with water that has lower levels of those 2 (the cya is easy since it's not found in fill water ) you would want to test the fill source water for calcium before trying to decide how much water to drain from the pool. There can also be issues with lowering the water in the pool if you live in an area with high ground water. If you can tell us how much calcium is in the water you would use to refill the pool, and if there is a potential ground water issue, we can give you better advice on correcting the high chemical levels

    Did you do the base demand test after getting 7 as the pH? (I ask because the test only measures down to 7 and could be lower than that - if it is you want to add some Borax pronto, before the acidic water can do damage!!! - a pH of 7 is tolerable for a short time, but you really want the pH to be 7.2 - 7.8 )

    The use of tri and di - chlor is the reason for the high cya (it may well be closer to 200 - the cya test has 100 as it's top end, once you go over 100 - it's a guess as to the actual #) - BBB is the bbbest thing for your wallet and pool!

    Again, welcome to TFP and thanks for doing a little reading before posting!! We're here to help you 'take control of your pool'
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Just got K2006

    Here are my results"
    FC 1
    CC .5
    CH 750
    Ph 7
    TA 180
    CYA way above 100

    Is there any way to get the CYA down besides draining some of the water? Same with the CH? We have had our pool for 12 yrs. and this is the first year we have had this much trouble with it. It was clear last weekend and now it is cloudy. Can't see the deep in well, but can make it out. We are wanting to try the BBB method and quit putting $$$ in chemicals. Any help you can give will be appreciated.

    Toni
    17,500 gal, IG, vinyl liner, 16 x 32 rect., 19" Jacuzzi Sand Filter, 1 HP Jacuzzi Pump, located in South Arkansas

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Help!!!! CYA and CH OUT THE ROOF!!!! What do I do?

    Here are my test results
    CYA 100+++
    CH 750
    Ph 7
    TA 180
    FC 1
    CC .5

    If I did the testing right these are the results. Is the only thing to bring the CYA and CH down is draining water from the pool? Am interested in using the BBB way of treating my pool, but by all I have read I need to get the CYA and CH down first. Please help! My pool is cloudy blue. Can see the shallow end, but deep is a little tougher to see. Last weekend it was clear but now it's not. My pool is mostly in the sun all day til about 6:00 or so. No trees. Any info will be greatly appreciated.
    Thnx,
    Toni
    17,500 gal, IG, vinyl liner, 16 x 32 rect., 19" Jacuzzi Sand Filter, 1 HP Jacuzzi Pump, located in South Arkansas

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    teppy's Avatar
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    Re: Help!!!! CYA and CH OUT THE ROOF!!!! What do I do?

    the only thing to do for high CYA and Ch is to do a partial drain. NO other way.
    17,000 gallon roman shaped gunite pool-AquaRite goldline SWG

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    Re: thill59

    Thanks for the quick response and sorry for the 3 posts. I am new and really didn't know where to post my questions . I will try to do better in the future.

    We pulled our pool down last night to the bottom step and are in the progress of refilling. Will retest after filling and re-post new numbers. As for the "base test", I'm not sure I know what you are talking about. I followed the instructions as best as I could understand them on all the tests given. My CYA was way below the 100 mark so yes it was probably close to over 200. I posted 100+++ because that was the last number on the cylinder.

    We have had our pool for 12 years or better so this isn't our first rodeo. But we have been having trouble since the beginning getting our pH up to where it should be. I couldn't begin to tell you how many $$$ we have put into it. And then this year we got a tear in our cover and when we opened it it was a MARSH! I mean it had fur growing in it. And then to make matters worse our pump was not working right. Some how the pipe inside shrunk and wasn't doing it's job. But with a little work and a lot of $$$ we got the green out and has been clear until this week.

    We have put in borax and baking soda. But after reading several posts and waiting on my new test kit for actual results I realized that we needed to drain some of the water and refill.

    So as I said.....when we get it full again I will retest and repost and go from there. Again thanks for the quick response.
    Toni
    17,500 gal, IG, vinyl liner, 16 x 32 rect., 19" Jacuzzi Sand Filter, 1 HP Jacuzzi Pump, located in South Arkansas

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: thill59

    A few of the test kits include "acid demand" and "base demand" tests, most don't. From what you said, it appears that yours does not. This isn't a big deal, no need to rush out and buy a kit that has that test.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  8. Back To Top    #8

    New test results and a few ?'s

    [Edit:Merged thread:jjparrish: Please post all info in this thread reagarding clearing your pool]

    Ok, we drained our water down to the bottom step and refilled. Here are my newest test results:
    pH still below 7
    TA 120
    CH 300
    CYA 120-150 maybe since 100 is the lowest number on my cylinder
    FC .4
    CC.2


    Now my question is, what is the most important thing to put in first, or do I combine and put Soda Ash and Bleach in or do I raise my pH first then bleach. I know I need the chlorine to sanitize, but everything I have read, not here mind you, but every where else says pH is the most important factor in balancing the water. And how do you put the soda ash in? Mix with water? Just broadcast? And when do I add Borax and how do I know how much? Or do I need to?
    17,500 gal, IG, vinyl liner, 16 x 32 rect., 19" Jacuzzi Sand Filter, 1 HP Jacuzzi Pump, located in South Arkansas

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    AnnaK's Avatar
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    Re: New test results and a few ?'s

    It would probably better if you posted this in your previously started thread titled "thill59" so we can maintain continuity, can see where you've been, what you've done, what the results have been so far.

    The CYA number concerns me. Fill water doesn't have CYA in it. How can your be over 100?

    What kind of CYA test do you use?
    — AnnaK —

    12,000 gal AGP, Hayward sand filter, Pentair 2-speed pump, timer.
    Please visit our Pool Issues pages for information about step weights, managing the solar cover, and PoolSkim.

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: thill59

    Do another drain refill and test again and post those CYA #'s.

    I wouldn't mess with anything else until your drain refill process is over. . . in other words, we'll tell you what to do next.

    Now go start pumping out more water!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: thill59

    We drained probably 50% of the water yesterday and last night and started refilling around 10pm. I have had the pump on now for over 2 hrs and retested and here are my results.

    pH still low probably 6 as 7 is the lowest on my kit (k2006 Taylor)
    TA 120
    CH 300
    CYA 120 or 150 (again the test only goes to 100)
    FC .4
    CC .2

    As you can see from the precious numbers the CYA has went down as has the CH. I don't think my husband will go for another drain. And I know that is the only way those numbers are going to change. We will however, in time, have to add water from time to time as it evaporates, usually once a week. It is very hot and humid here!!! So maybe this will help as well.

    And again, I appologize for not posting in the right place. I am new, so be patient, PLEASE.

    Now if he (my husband) won't go for another drain, what do I battle first? The pH or TA? And do I go ahead and treat with chlorine?
    17,500 gal, IG, vinyl liner, 16 x 32 rect., 19" Jacuzzi Sand Filter, 1 HP Jacuzzi Pump, located in South Arkansas

  12. Back To Top    #12
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    Re: thill59

    Evaporation will not help. When water evaporates it just concentrates whatever is in the water and when you add new water you are just diluting it back to the original level before evaporation. You have to drain and refill with fresh water to dilute the CYA.

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: thill59

    Quote Originally Posted by thill59
    We drained probably 50% of the water yesterday and last night and started refilling around 10pm. I have had the pump on now for over 2 hrs and retested and here are my results.

    pH still low probably 6 as 7 is the lowest on my kit (k2006 Taylor)
    TA 120
    CH 300
    CYA 120 or 150 (again the test only goes to 100)
    FC .4
    CC .2

    As you can see from the precious numbers the CYA has went down as has the CH. I don't think my husband will go for another drain. And I know that is the only way those numbers are going to change. We will however, in time, have to add water from time to time as it evaporates, usually once a week. It is very hot and humid here!!! So maybe this will help as well.

    Sorry to tell you that the cya doesn't evaporate out of the pool, nor does the calcium - drain and refill is the only way to lower these

    And again, I appologize for not posting in the right place. I am new, so be patient, PLEASE.

    we understand that things can be confusing at first, if you make a mistake, we just try to mention what was wrong and point you in the right direction

    Now if he (my husband) won't go for another drain, what do I battle first? Your husband! The pH or TA? And do I go ahead and treat with chlorine?
    You can add chlorine and pH increaser (Borox) in the same dosing. As I said before, getting the pH up over 7 will protect your pool surface and equipment - so I'd make that adjustment first! We really want you to have a trouble free pool and you will have one if you follow our advice, but you've got to do all we say (ie. replace as much water as it takes to get the numbers down to more optimal levels) - taking 1/2 of what we say and ignoring the rest will not and can not solve your problems I really want you to not have any pool problems, once you successfully get past this one, but until you handle this hurdle, the pool won't be right!

    Have a great weekend, do as we've said and your pool will be a hit for a 4th of July party next week!!

    (I see Evan has posted whilst I was with the same info on dilution - Hi Evan )
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: thill59

    Okay, I'm gonna try and figure this out...

    Let's say, just for fun, your CYA is 150. That means *I'm starting to guess now * that you will need a minimum of 11 ppm or more of free chlorine on a regular basis and if you go below that you'll run the risk of having to shock at 45-55 ppm or more when the majority of pool owners shock at 15-20 ppm.

    Is that right Pros? I was just guessing since the CYA chart doesn't read above 100!

    That is outrageous! I guess you better stock up on bleach. You're gonna need it if you don't drain and refill until your #'s are snugly fit in between 30-70 high end for swg.

    I'd rather pay for water than bleach in this instance. You should just get it done and give the pool what it really needs. FRESH WATER!

    You'll say Ahhhhhhhhh! when we're done!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: thill59

    Casey, you hit the nail on the head that I was dancing around! Take care of the problem the first time and then it becomes BBB easy 8) to maintain a pool!
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: thill59

    Thanks for the info! I am telling my husband! Unfortunately he has already put in the soda ash to bring up the pH, so that was wasted $$$ for me. Guess he thinks I am made of them. And I really do want my pool to be a TFP, so maybe when he isn't looking I will sneak back and start draining myself. Surely we won't have to drain as much as we did last night to get the #'s down. And as for the acid and base test? Yes my kit does contain them and according to the #'s I got I had to add 40 drops to get my pH even up to 7.4. And with a pool my size we were supposed to add approx. 24 lbs soda to get that increase. Now, with my CYA so out of whack will that cause a pH bounce and maybe that number was incorrect? And are we to use the Borax or the soda ash to increase that? Or just plain baking soda?

    Now I am going to go talk to the hard head and see if we can't drain some more!
    17,500 gal, IG, vinyl liner, 16 x 32 rect., 19" Jacuzzi Sand Filter, 1 HP Jacuzzi Pump, located in South Arkansas

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: thill59

    Open the waste valve and then go talk to the hard head.

    I'll be over here dancin with waste.

    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: thill59

    Well believe it or not he wasn't as hard headed as I expected. The drain is in progress and will post with new numbers tomorrow some time. Thanks!
    17,500 gal, IG, vinyl liner, 16 x 32 rect., 19" Jacuzzi Sand Filter, 1 HP Jacuzzi Pump, located in South Arkansas

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: thill59

    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  20. Back To Top    #20
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: thill59

    When you do raise the PH, I suggest using borax and aeration. Your TA is already reasonably high, soda ash will increase the TA more than borax will. Aeration would be ideal, because it doesn't raise TA at all, but the aeration will be slow, and you will want to raise the PH fairly quickly. So start by getting the PH up to 7.0 soon, with borax if possible, and then go the rest of the way with aeration.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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