7 months later - questioning bromine approach

[DNSTubber]

I had been maintaining a 3 step bromine system for my spa since the Summer and I am running into two problems:
1) After shocking I cannot get the bromine level down for days (5+). I think the simple answer is that there is not enough for the bromine to kill off so I should shock less frequently despite everything online saying weekly. Once bromine levels are normal and we go in the tub the bromine levels drop really quickly with use, meaning that I do need to be ready to shock it after uses, so getting this right is very important. The tab floater, sometimes alleviates this and keeps the bromine levels good between uses, but...
2) I think the minor chlorine in the bromine tabs might be irritating my skin. I discovered this because when the bromine levels were too high after shocking I would have to take out the floater to let the levels drop as quickly as possible and I found less or no irritation when the floater had been out for some time (assuming that means the active chorine levels dropped by this point with the floater out).

The best conclusion I can come up with is to move to a 2 step program and eliminate the tabs b/c they are keeping the bromine too high after shocking and possibly irritating me. If I do this, what is the best way to think about using the shock (Leisure Time Renew) to maintain a good bromine level? Trial and error with how many scoops and how often despite what instructions say? Is there a third option I should explore?

If I stick to a 2 step system...any product recommendations? I am currently using Leisure Time Sodium Brom to build the reserve and then Renew to shock/replenish the bromine.

Tub is around 400 gallons with an ozonator, which is probably contributing to the bromine level problem. Ph always stays around 7.2-7.4. Nothing else notable to mention.

Thanks!

 

[Flying Tivo]

The best conclusion I can come up with is to move to a 2 step program and eliminate the tabs

This is where all heck breaks loose.
If you are already using chlorine to activate the bromine bank, just drain/refill and keep using chlorine without the bromine.
KISS principle(im no expert on spa).

Hot Tub Basics - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[DNSTubber]

Aren’t I using Renew which is a non-chlorine shock to activate the bank? I don’t think any chlorine is required. As mentioned I think I am allergic to it.

Really trying to understand how to maintain good levels with a healthy, working bromide bank and non-chlorine shock to activate without the levels taking 5 days to drop from 20ppm. Just less of the Renew powder through trial and error to keep around 4ppm?

Or are the tabs really the best way to maintain in which case I think I need to shock way less and live with the allergy which sounds miserable.

 

[Flying Tivo]

You are not allergic to chlorine, the itch you get is probably from a low ph by using Tabs. Again im no expert in spas, but a fresh clean start with TFP methodology will give you something to compare against Bromine(which we dont recommend). If you decide to try it please do a purge with Ahh-some.

 

[PoolBrews]

I moved from bromine to chlorine recently in my spa, and it's working well. I've used bromine for the past 30 years in spas... then I noticed the latest manual for my spa no longer recommends bromine - in fact they specifically stated to NOT USE bromine. Curious as to the change in direction, I began to research this and see that there are now numerous studies and medical papers concerning the issues with bromine and the human body.

One of the noted effects is hyperthyroidism - something I've been diagnosed with recently. I'm not trying to scare anyone, but I am suggesting you do a little research in this area.

I now have a Saltron Mini in my hot tub, and it's working great!

 

[DNSTubber]

Great. But assuming that I am only asking this forum for help on how to best regulate using a 2 step program vs a 3 step program, both of which are represented in the TFP guide, any helpful tips on getting bromine levels to be such that we can use the tub a few hours after adding renew to build back the bromine after use? Is it just trial and error of how much to use based on use?

I appreciate the other suggestions, but not sure they are addressing my question. I am following the guide but just specifically looking to go to 2 step from 3 step bc I don’t like the tabs. Thanks again!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Couple of points -

1. It is highly unlikely that you are allergic to chlorine. It’s a highly unusual and rare allergy to have and you would have noticed it long before you had ever step foot in a hot tub. What you are likely experiencing are the harsh effects of high bromine levels coupled with exposure to MPS (potassium monopersulfate shock). Persulfates are very irritating and they leave behind sulfates in the tub water. High levels of bromine can also result in the formation of bromates which remain in the water and are unhealthy.

2. Your rash/allergy is more likely from pseudomonas infection also known as “hot tub rash”. This happens when a hot tub becomes unsanitary and bacterial growth happens. And yes, shocking will not eliminate bacterial growth if biofilms form in the plumbing.

3. Bromine can be very tricky to manage when you are using tabs, MPS and an ozone generator. All three sources contain an oxidizer that will raise total bromine levels. So you need to limit/simplify your chemical process.

4. You will not be exposed to chlorine from tablets. The chlorine in those tablets immediately reacts with any bromide around to form bromine.

Here’s my suggestion -

1. If you haven’t already done so, purge the hot tub plumbing with Ahhsome. If you have biofilms in the plumbing you will never get rid of them through simple shocking and they will cause a constant sanitizer demand.

2. Drain the tub and flush the lines out with clean water. Consider draining and refilling a second time to clear it all out.

3. Fill and rebalance the tub. Use sodium bromide to establish the bromide bank and use liquid chlorine bleach (you might need to get pool liquid chlorine as most store bleaches now contain additives) to raise the bromine levels.

4. Do not use anymore MPS and save the tabs for when you can’t be near the tub for more than a few days. If you’re able to either turn off the ozone generator or electrically disconnect it. It’s really not doing you any good.

5. Keep an eye on the pH as it will almost certainly rise because of less tab and MPS use. You will need to keep the tub’s TA around 50ppm or so to avoid excessive pH rise. Use muriatic acid to control pH; you can buy the no fumes 15% stuff at Home Depot.

6. Stop buying chemicals from the spa store. They are overpriced and unnecessary.

 

[DNSTubber]

Great! My Ahhsome just arrived from Amazon today. Once the above is done, what is the procedure for keeping the bromine after use/in general? The liquid bleach? Any need to shock beyond that or just keep things clean and balanced?.

Will turn ozonator off. Good point on the tabs. There will be times where we have 1-2 weeks away and will use the floater then. Thank you!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Just add enough bleach/chlorine to obtain the bromine level you desire. Typically 4-8ppm bromine is where you want the tub to be although it can drop lower than that if no one is using it. The recommendation to regularly shock a tub comes mainly from the fact that one cannot distinguish between free bromine and combine bromine and so there’s no reliable indicator for when to raise sanitizer to shock levels. Unfortunately it’s going to be up to you to figure that out. If the tub is lightly used then there isn’t a huge need to shock it all the time especially if it’s just you or you and some immediate family members. So you’ll have to find a rhythm that works well. You can shock it simply with the same bleach you use to raise the bromine levels. Just raise it up to 16-20ppm and then let it return to normal.

Bromine levels are always going to fall with use or if the tub sits for a while, that’s just natural for a sanitizer. So you’ll need to raise them back up regularly by testing and dosing everyday. After a while you’ll figure out the pattern and then testing will become less frequent and mainly for pH control. But you have to let testing drive your chemical dosing. If this hasn’t been mentioned before, do not use test strips, they are worthless. Buy a high quality test kit like the ones from Taylor and use that.

Finally, tub water needs to be dumped periodically. You can typically only get 2-4 months out of a fill before the water has to be changed. That’s just life with a hot tub.

 

[DNSTubber]

Thank you! I have used the Taylor kit since day 1, so at least I got that right.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Another thing to consider is not keeping the tub closed all the time and letting it run opened to the air (and sunshine if possible) a few times per week. This will help to offgas any volatile organic as that might have formed and the give the tub water sometime to equilibrate with the outside air. You don’t necessarily have to run it at high temperature while doing that. Just run the air jets for maybe 30-45mins uncovered.

Also, make sure people using the tub are as clean as possible (showering off before getting helps) and try to keep long hair with lots of “hair products” in it out of the water. Also, reuse bathing suits a few times before washing them and don’t wash them with fabric softeners. You’d be surprised how much chemical “junk” you can drag into the water simply from all the stuff we put on ourselves and our clothing. And all it does is foul up the water.