CHEAP Taylor tests - Leslie's

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Re: CHEAP Taylor tests - Leslie's - UNRELIABLE

tcpiii said:
As a follow-up to my last post in this thread:

This morning I compared results of the new, cheap DPD test kit that arrived this week from Leslie's with my quick OTO kit (new reagents this summer) and the FAS/DPD test (from Ben's 233 test kit, with new powder this summer). I used the same water for all the tests. First I did the new DPD: Free Cl = about 1, 0 combined Cl. OTO: Total Cl about 5. FAS/DPD Free Cl 5.5, 0 Combined.

Conclusion: The free Cl test in these DPD kits is worthless.

Other tests worked fine: TA = 120 with new kit, 110 with old; Ph = 7.5 with both.

So if you ordered one of these kits: At least be quite skeptical of the Cl results until you verify them from another source.

BTW, I ordered 2 of the cheap kits, and they, unfortunately, are consistent with each other.

Guess I could get my money back if I wanted to, but it was only $3.66 for the two kits, and the alkalinity and Ph reagents are worth the money.

Coty
Click to expand...

I also bought a Spanish version and knew there was trouble when the plastic case it came in was covered in dust. I only wanted a few of the reagents and I use a DPD-FAS kit so I really did not care about the cl testing that came. The pH and TA tests were accurate measured against my existing kit. As you mentioned, the Chlorine test faded immediately.

Mike
 
I bought the "Leslie's DPD Delujo" aka Taylor K-1004S Residential Troubleshooter (Spanish) and got bad results with the Cl/Br test.

I phoned Leslie's and their customer service person suggested I take the kit to my nearest Leslie's store (fortunately not too far away) so that they could check it out and make sure I'm using it properly.

So they'll wind up replacing the expired reagents anyway.

I think that this blowout is a bad move on their part. Surely they are aware that these kits have expired reagents in them; if they want to dump them, they should be selling them off a table at the local swap meet, not listing them on their website at swap meet prices.

Anyway, the OTO ones seem to work okay, and the TA test in mine agreed with my newless cluebie cheapo 4-way to the last drop. The OTO Deluxe might be a useful kit for a bromine spa.
 
I ordered:
2 of the 18575 DPD Spanish test kits @ 3.83 = 7.66
2 of the 81331 DPD powder @ 6.99 = 13.98
2 of the 81349 DPD titrating agent (2 oz.)@ 12.39 = 24.78
for a grand total of $49.61, including tax and FREE SHIPPING!
I also got some other stuff, a leaf rake, wall whale brush and skimmer socks in a second order because of the FREE SHIPPING!!! and not having to drive across town. BTW, they say they ship with FedEX, but I got my DPD powder via UPS straight from TAYLOR in Sparks MD( it took 13 days). I don't know how Leslie's can be making any money off of this deal, but I like it! :) Also, the last time that I was in their local store the had the Intermatic electronic timers(not including the raintight box) on clearance for $19.98, and all clearance items were 50% off lowest marked price!
 
My point in the above post was that you can get the stuff to do FAS-DPD for $23.21 delivered to your door!( and a neat little blue box that contains the Chl/Br-Ph test block, TA test vial and reagents and acid demand reagents. Sorry, no CYA. Also, I've searched before and not found anything that describes the differences\usefulness of the various tests. Maybe a sticky in chemistry 101 that says that OTO just tells you that there IS some chlorine in the water, DPD tells you that there IS some FREE chlorine in the water along with some USED chlorine, and FAS-DPD tells you exactly how much FREE chlorine and how much USED chlorine? And how to interpret the results? I'm kinda dense, if the OTO turned yellow I thought that I was done! Thanks to all of the helpfull people here I realized that I was just getting started! Many thanks!!!
 
I received a Spanish test kit and determined that the DPD Cl test reagents were bad. I called Leslie's and told them the Cl reagents were bad. They sent me a new Spanish test kit. The new DPD Cl reagents are bad.

I had planned to use the DPD Cl test for daily testing and the FAS-DPD test every week. The Leslie Spanish DPD Cl reagents have to be thrown away.
 
Steve456 said:
I received a Spanish test kit and determined that the DPD Cl test reagents were bad. I called Leslie's and told them the Cl reagents were bad. They sent me a new Spanish test kit. The new DPD Cl reagents are bad.

I had planned to use the DPD Cl test for daily testing and the FAS-DPD test every week. The Leslie Spanish DPD Cl reagents have to be thrown away.
Click to expand...

I haven't done it yet, but I suspect the way to get it done is to show up at a Leslie's store with your test kits and just tell them that you bought them and can't get them to work. They'll see that they shipped with old reagents and comp you new ones.

I hope.
 
New2Me said:
Also, I've searched before and not found anything that describes the differences\usefulness of the various tests. Maybe a sticky in chemistry 101 that says that OTO just tells you that there IS some chlorine in the water, DPD tells you that there IS some FREE chlorine in the water along with some USED chlorine, and FAS-DPD tells you exactly how much FREE chlorine and how much USED chlorine? And how to interpret the results? I'm kinda dense, if the OTO turned yellow I thought that I was done! Thanks to all of the helpfull people here I realized that I was just getting started! Many thanks!!!
Click to expand...

That would be a nice sticky.

As far as I can see from lurking for a few weeks, the consensus at this forum is that one must have a FAS-DPD kit, and giving too much advice on other types of kits encourages people to try to get by with less testing kit than they need.

I agree that $65 on a test kit is (pardon the expression) a drop in the bucket compared to what people spend on equipment and chemicals and that the existence of all these cheapo kits that claim to be able to test for everything can make folks think that paying more than $15 for a test kit is silly. Heck, my kit will do ACID DEMAND, which sounds very technical and mysterious, so it must be a great kit, right?

However, I do not agree that basic OTO kits (even the cheapos) are worse than testing water by gargling a glassful. There will be cases where that is all that someone has to work with (helping a friend, family member, timeshare pool, whatever).

There is also the bromine spa (my configuration). I've yet to see anything that tells me that even plain DPD is not a bit overkill for that. I'm open to correction, BTW.

In my admittedly limited experience, the TA and pH tests in my Guardex 4-way give just as useful results as the ones in my Taylor Deluxe. The Taylor OTO works better because of the much better translucent comparator.

From what I've read, the legendary 234 kit even included a Taylor basic OTO. Gotta be good for something.

So +1 here for being curious to see a breakdown of the differences between various test methods/kits.
 
This is a brief comparison of the TF 100 to cheaper test kits. Test strips, btw, are imprecise and sometimes extremely inaccurate.

Oh, even the TF100 that is recommended here has an OTO/Ph test kit in it! The OTO is recommended here for daily testing when the water is good. It's cheap, easy to use, and you can tell approximately how much total chlorine you have in it. But you are just comparing the shades of yellow with what's on the test block, so you can not get a precise reading on it. And the one in the TF100 only goes to 5 - it is a Taylor test kit btw. Many only go to 3. And if you have combined chlorines due to algae, or whatever, the OTO can not read them.

The FAS-DPD chlorine test can read very precise levels of chlorine, down to .5, and can read as much as 50ppm chlorine. This is very useful when you have to shock. You are also not doing the "Okay, is this closer to this shade or that shade of yellow?"; instead you are doing a very precise drop counting of chemical, so you get the exact amount of chlorine. It also tests for combined, or "bad" chlorines. This test is usually necessary weekly or so.

The Ph is the same as most drop based test kits; a Ph block. Those are actually very good test measurements.

Most less expensive drop based test kits do not contain a cyanuric acid (stabilizer) test, or at least not a very precise and easy to read test. This is a very, very important test. If the pool has too much stabilizer the chlorine is not able to do its job well, if at all. Also knowing how much cyanuric acid is in the pool is necessary to know how much chlorine to put in for daily chlorination and for shock.

TF100 also contains calcium hardness and total alkalinity tests. For both these tests, you are, again, doing a precise drop test which makes it easier to see exactly how much calcium hardness you have, and exactly how much total alkalinity.

I was not too sure that I wanted to spend the money for the TF100, not when I could get less expensive stuff and test strips. With the test strips, though, I could only tell that my CYA was less than 50. I could only tell my total hardness and alkalinity within about 100 ppm. And the less expensive drop based test kits never contained all that I wanted. I did see a couple that supposedly did all the tests for about $20 less, but they didn't have the accuracy of the FAS-DPD. A regular DPD test is okay, but it doesn't test nearly as high or with as much accuracy. I'm glad that I did spend the money.
 
I think that the TF-100 is the best kit deal going. I don't have one, tho. I do have some Intex 3-way test strips(they were $3 at Big Lots :) ), HTH 5-way test strips, a $5 Pool Solutions Basic OTO/PH kit from Rural King, a $15 HTH kit from Wal-0Mart that does CYA, and the Leslie's Spanish kits, with additions. I bought some Pool Shop OTO-Phenol at Home Depot for $3 to re-fill the basic kit with because I didn't need another test block & case(I'm also frugal.) My comparisons of the various tests for CL all gave about the same result, same yellow for OTOs matched test strips and DPD red. I haven't titrated FAS-DPD yet. The Leslies and HTH both gave same TA, and the HTH CH is in line with several store tested samples(I have a vinyl liner so it isn't critical), and I'm not sure what acid demand is for, so I haven't done it :roll: . The test strips are quick checks, if someone asks "What's your chlorine?", I give them a strip. I use the OTO daily as a check, and the PH part several times if I'm adding borax/acid(THE POOL CALCULATOR IS AWESOME!!!) My CYA tests have never jibed with Leslie's, or two other stores. Mine are off the charts, Leslies and another store said 35-50, and the computer at a third said 75! Test strips consistently say 30-50, even after 35+ pounds of thrichlor usage. The TF-100, HTH and Taylor CYA tests look the same to me, same directions, same comparitor tube. Several people have posted that the CYA is very subjective and I agree, and yet this is one of the most important tests! At Leslie's they use a different CYA rig, with a black dot on a stick that they raise/lower to read. I don't think that they mix for 30 seconds, though! Titration would be more accurate. With the TA test each drop is 10, so when I get pink with 9 drops that holds, and the next one goes deep red, I record 95(everyone else keeps a log don't they? :hammer: .I don't have a lot of faith in my CYA test, and it uses so much reagent that I'll continue to get it tested at several places and average the results. Meanwhile, its 90 outside, the pool is a clean, cool, and 82, so I'm going swimming! :goodjob:
 

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The OTO test measures TC from 0-5 (or sometimes from 0-3, depending on the kit). It is reasonably precise from 0-2 and gets vague above that unless you have a substantial amount of experience with reading the shades of yellow. OTO is extremely reliable at detecting no chlorine vs some chlorine. All of the other tests can read extremely high FC levels as if they were zero in some situations (a common problem with DPD, very rare but possible with FAS-DPD).

It is possible to get approximate TC levels in higher ranges with the OTO test using dilution or by knowing the shades of orange and red that occur at high FC levels. Often, when CC levels are low, OTO with dilution is good enough to get close enough to shock level to fight algae. But the OTO test can be very misleading when CC is present, and is not good enough to measure overnight FC loss. The OTO test can also be used to get a sense of CC levels. High CC levels will cause the shade of yellow to shift, which can usually be noticed enough to know that CC is present, but not usually accurately measured.

For normal day to day testing it is normally safe to assume that CC is zero. When CYA levels are reasonable, 30-50 (60-80 with a SWG), the day to day, FC levels should be in range of the OTO test, all be it the upper, somewhat vague end of the range. In practice the OTO test is just fine for testing day to day to see if the level is about what you are expecting.


The DPD test measures FC and TC from 0-5 (or 0-10 with dilution). It is more precise at lower FC levels, less precise at higher FC levels. At fairly high FC levels, often at common shock levels, it will read at zero. DPD allows you to measure FC and calculate CC, which is good, and it is easier to distinguish levels from 2-5 than with OTO, but reading levels around 12+ as zero can be a serious problem.


The FAS-DPD test measures FC and CC from 0-50 by either 0.5 or 0.2 (depending on how you do the test). At extremely high FC levels, well above typical shock levels, it can sometimes be fooled into reading zero, but it is usually possible to notice that this is happening (the solution will often turn pink for a moment and then go clear, or will turn brown instead of pink).

The FAS-DPD test is the test of choice for measuring overnight FC loss. It is also more reliable for novices, who sometimes have trouble distinguishing the color shades in the other tests. The FAS-DPD test is dramatically more precise at high FC and CC levels than any of the other tests and has a much larger range.
 
My OTO test blocks have 5 shades marked 0.6, 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 and 5.0 going from very light yellow to almost light orange. The 5.0 on the CH side is about the same color as the 6.8 on the bottom of the PH side. The directions for the basic OTO CL test say that it will read CC by waiting two minutes and noting the change from the initial reading, meaning that the minimum CC reading is 0.4 (1.0-0.6), but it would have to be 1.0 to be read with a CL of 2.0, or 3.0. My DPD test block has 5 shades marked .5-1, 1-2, 2-4, 3-6, and 5-10 going from light to dark pink, so a 3 or a 5 is a guess as to whether the ol' Mark I calibrated eyeball is reading high or low, and adding 5 drops of R-0003 seems a waste to get a CC no better than OTO. Titrating for a step change in color is more accurate, hence the use of FAS-DPD for CC in dealing with algae?
The aging eyeball/ lighting effect on the CYA test also leaves me wanting for a drop based method! Thanks to all that I've learned here, I haven't needed an accurate CC, I just keep the B's flowing to maintain a solid OTO yellow, DPD Pink!
 
After reading a couple of these post about the spanish test being bad, I said to my self, that explains why I have to keep bumping up my SWG, I ordered 2 of these kits, and just assuming (which I usually never do) these were brand new I started using them a week ago to test my FC/TA/Ph I have been bumping up my SWG that last couple of days at which I went all the way up to 70%, then reading the post yesterday I went out and took my other kit K2006 with new regents and low and behold I was at 10 FC and the spanish kit said I was at 2 FC.

I will be taking these back to leslies (with a bottle of pool water)tomarow for either a refund or replacement regents.

I have turned down my SWG to 0%

Thanks for keeping straight on the "cheap" regents, I guess the old saying still stands, if it sounds to good to be true then it is.
 
So I took my DPD Delujo to Leslie's in San Leandro yesterday.

Leslie's customer service suggested I bring the kit to a store and have them check it out.

On the way to the car, it occurred to me that I could get a free Professional Pool Store Water Analysis, so I brought some.

Lesliebot tested my water with my kit, got zero bromine residual. Tested my water with his kit, got the same thing. I have been having issues with maintaining a residual (more on that elsewhere, if it persists), and was planning a full drain anyway, so no big deal.

Problem is, he then believed that he had proved that my kit was good. No logic I could offer could dissuade him (he was pretty sure that it was the kit's language barrier that had thrown me off). I asked him if they had water for testing test kits and he said they did not (although there is a restroom at the rear of the store, presumably with chlorinated city water). I suggested we drop a little MPS in what remained of my sample to get the bromine up, and he said that he couldn't open a bag to do that.

So, faced with a guy with a store full of pool chemicals telling me that he had no way to simulate a pool water test case, I dug in and told him that I was going to stand there until I got satisfaction; that he had not convinced me that my problem was user error.

All I wanted was fresh reagent for the Cl/Br test, but he gave me a whole new kit (en Ingles).

I'm not too bothered for my sake; I knew there had to be something weird about the deal and I ultimately wound up with a DPD/pH/TA kit for $4.17 and a drive to San Leandro.

What if an actual Spanish-speaking person just wants a freakin' kit with instructions in that language? I wonder what Taylor would say if they knew that Leslie's was knowingly dumping expired kits?
 
For anyone that ordered one of these kits, I strongly urge you to check the DPD reagents, per Taylor-
R-0002 DPD Reagent #2
This solution should be colorless to be effective. As it reacts with oxidizers, the color will vary, ranging from colorless to pink then darkening to a final brown color.

R-0003 DPD Reagent #3
This solution should be colorless to be effective. As chemical changes occur, the color will become increasingly yellow.
 
I went to Leslies today, with my 2 spanish test kits and a bottle of pool water in hand, after numerous testing with the spanish regents and the regents at Leslies, they gave me new CL regents for both kits at no charge, :goodjob: (not including my time or gas)

Oh yeah, I did get the question, "did you order these spanish kits on purspose"
 

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