Recurring White Water Mold

[nclrush]

Hi Jenoa0 -

I'm sorry for my delayed response. I haven't been on top of my email account lately.

I've been using Aquafinesse for the last 3 months. While the water has remained crystal clear and the vinyl liner squeaky clean, the debris in my pool continues, mostly visible after running the propellor for a while. I keep a debris shield in my skimmer basket that I clean daily and also vacuum the pool regularly.

Very recently, I fished out a particularly large piece of debris and it had what appeared to be part of a typeface printed on it. I've attached a picture of this and welcome anyone's theories as to what this might be!

Jenoa0 - I wish you the best of luck! Hopefully your problem is much easier to deal with than mine.

 

[chem geek]

So you might try the other suggestion of Polyquat 60 and see if that helps, though from what you show that doesn't look quite like white water mold to me. It has the thin tissue-paper like appearance, but it's colored and looks held together and a little thicker than I'd expect. It almost looks like a thin strip of paint. What happens when you touch it? Is it at all slimy or does it feel smoother like a glossy paint?

Jenoa0, Welcome to TFP!

Usually for white water mold we are able to get rid of it through shocking the pool to a higher FC level and then after it is gone maintaining a proper Free Chlorine (FC) level relative to the Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level. I suggest you start your own thread and give us details such as your pool water chemistry parameters, what kind of test kit you are using, details about the pool (size, type), what kind of disinfectant you are using such as chlorine and what type (Trichlor tabs, Cal-Hypo granular, chlorinating liquid, bleach, etc.).

 

[jblizzle]

That certainly looks like writing on it ...

 

[nclrush]

chem geek - The guy from Par Pools said the same thing re the consistency of this stuff. He thought it was more likely something scaling from the pipes than water mold. The print on this last sample of debris is making me discard any previous theories about organic material. It's soft and quickly disintegrates when you touch it, sometimes smearing into the net when I try to wipe the net clean. If I let it completely dry first, then it becomes like very thin, delicate paper.

I did start using polyquat 60 about a month ago because after leaving town for a week I found a small quarter-sized yellow spot at the center bottom of the pool. (The FC level was still above 1.5, but maybe this is a dead spot in the pool?) I shocked using the overnight chlorine test, then stepped up the chlorine to mustard level, and then after the shock was complete, I added polyquat as insurance (hopefully) against a recurrence for other times I'm away. While the yellow substance I was seeing has not reappeared, the polyquat seems to have had no impact whatsoever on this other grey debris (yet another sign that this grey stuff isn't mold or algae?).

At this point, I'm considering completely draining and disassembling the portion of the pool that sits inside the vinyl liner (e.g. the return benches and propellor unit) to see if I can find something to explain this. It's been so frustrating.

 

[tpcorr]

This would drive me crazy too. Is it possible to bring the sample to a lab to have them identify the substance?

Tom

 

[Jenoa0]

Thanks for the response nclrush - sounds like we have the exact same pool and problem.

I am sad to hear its still going on. I have shocked the pool and kept the chlorine to shock levels for a while and used the Aquafinesse and think (hope) it's helped. I did discover that my FC was low and the pool store suggested I was in a chlorine lock. I since have kept the pool at shock levels & changed out the cartridge filter every few days. Each day the debris in the pool has diminished to almost nothing. I have also be running the swim fan for at least 10-15 min at top speed per day. I have noticed that while the debris is less and the filter seems cleaner to the eye the "sock" skimmer that fits inside the skimmer basket always has that greenish-grey goop in it... The water overall is looking better and when the chlorine levels reduce to something safe to swim in I plan to get back in the water. I will keep you posted.

As far as the writing on the stuff you recently pulled out. The print face or the font looks just like the labeling on PVC pipes... however I have only seen black print on white pipes, and never on the inside surface of a pipe.

I have had my pool for about one year and everything was fine until last month. I have also been thinking about taking everything apart... but what a big job. If this is some sort of paper I wonder if its coming from inside the swim fan area. As that is the only pre-assembled portion we did not see. We put our pool together ourselves and saw every inch - other than inside the swim fan. Makes me wonder a bit.

 

[nclrush]

Jenoa0 - I'm so sorry to hear that you've been dealing with this too. I had the pool installed by one of Endless Pools "factory trained" installers, so I didn't examine any of the pieces before they were installed. It seems so unlikely he would have inadvertently left something like a sticker on the inside of a bench, for example, but I don't have any other theories at this point. I haven't sent that most recent picture to Endless Pools yet. I'll do so today and see if they have any ideas of what the print could possibly be.

tpcorr - I have considered sending a sample to a lab. I haven't found a local place yet, but maybe I can mail a sample somewhere if it's not too expensive to analyze. I will definitely report back here if I manage to set that up.

I appreciate everyone's help and ideas (and sympathy!). I've learned so much in this forum and am thankful there are so many people willing to take the time to offer suggestions.

 

[nclrush]

I've finally identified the source of my problem. While I should be on cloud nine today, drunk with the euphoria of finally solving this mystery, I'm instead festering with frustration after a very unproductive, and not at all helpful customer service call with Endless Pools. Grrr. I'll try my best to set this aside for now so that I can share with you all what I've learned.

My installer came out this morning and partially drained the pool with the goal of examining the interior of the propellor unit. The very first piece he removed was a relatively small panel that sits to the side of the propellor unit. It fits over 2 hydraulic hoses that feed the motor. Lo and behold there was the problem! The rubber coating on these hoses has been slowly degrading and flaking off over the past year.

Here's a picture:
[attachment=0:7xznj86r]PoolHoseDegrading.jpg[/attachment:7xznj86r]

No mold, no calcium flakes, nothing having anything to do with water chemistry. Just a crappy product.

At least I got a very solid education out of this experience, thanks to you all. And a chance to forewarn any Endless Pool owners. Beware of this mess! It may not be mold you are dealing with. It's incredibly easy to remove this one panel and examine these hoses. Literally the removal of about 4 screws and a good pump to partially drain the water from the pool is all you need to check if this is the source of your grief.

 

[linen]

Thanks for the update! Thank goodness it is not the wwm!

Did they replace the hydraulic hoses?

 

[nclrush]

Nope. They didn't even want to entertain the notion of replacing the hoses, before even reviewing any pictures. The rubber on these hoses began degrading after only 6 months of use (light use at at that!), yet they refuse to admit any possibility of these hoses being defective. They tried to claim that this is perfectly normal and happens all of the time, despite the fact that no one there seemed to know what was up each time I called to describe the issue and ask for help, not even when I sent a picture with the type print on one of the flakes floating around the pool. After a maddening half-hour discussion that was going nowhere, I asked why they were so unwilling to replace the hoses and was told that if they did so it would be as though they were admitting that I'm right and that there is a potential problem with these particular hoses, and that is just something they refuse to accept. Wow.

Instead, they instructed me to wipe the degrading rubber off of the hoses and continue to use the pool as though there was never a problem. They of course failed to mention that the entire length of the hoses would be difficult to reach. And they made absolutely no effort to assuage my concerns or to compensate me in any way whatsoever for the year's worth of frustration and an unusable pool in all of that time.

I thought this debris mystery would be the biggest problem I'd ever have to deal with regarding my Endless Pool. Turns out it's actually the miserable customer service that's the worst part of it all.

 

[Patrick_B]

Sorry you didn't have a better outcome. I'm honestly surprised they didn't just blame it all on "bad chemistry".

Keep us updated and let us know how it goes.

 

[nclrush]

I managed to escalate this issue with Endless Pools. This time I spoke to a more senior person in Customer Service. He told me that their Quality Control department hadn't seen anything like this before and would be looking into it with the manufacturer of the hoses. He advised me to stick with the original hoses until they could learn more because new hoses may just do the same thing. But after some insistence on my part, he agreed to send me replacement hoses.

Last week I got the new hoses installed and refilled my pool. It took a couple days to balance and heat the water. And after vacuuming the remaining debris, the pool is finally once again in good shape. I'm happy to report that I got to swim in clean, clear water last Friday!

I'm still really disappointed with how Endless Pools responded to my case. The line of, "this is normal and expected" after only 6 months is really absurd. The maintenance documentation indicates clearly that you shouldn't have to replace the hydraulic motor or related parts until 4-5 years. An EP sales rep even recently reiterated that fact in this thread discussing the life-expectancy of these hoses in different types of pool sanitizer systems:
endless-pool-fastlane-and-swg-t31372.html

I sent the original hoses back to EP and offered to provide other info (like my daily chem log) that might help them learn more. If there is something special about my pool's water chemistry that causes the hoses to degrade early, then I guess we'll find out in another 6 months. At least I now know what to be on the lookout for and I won't mistake the issue with WWM again!

Thank you so much to everyone here who offered advice and sympathy. This is such a wonderful site with many educated and experienced people. I've learned a ton and am really grateful. Thank you for taking the time to help me out!

 

[sd]

Hi nclrush.

I have the _exact_ same issue. Pool has been in use for about one year. For the last three months we have had a dark green colour in the water and every increasing amounts of debris. I have been hunting the source of the problem and the debris for weeks, and we have been having perfect water analysis.

I am very thankful to come across your thread, because I went and removed panels to view the hoses and sure enough, just as you describe. I talked to endless on Friday just to get the ball rolling and got the same story as you. Wipe off the hoses. Ours is a dual propulsion pool, and I estimate about 45 ft of hose in the pool behind 8 panels, with probably over 100 screws...not an inviting proposition if its just an experiment.

SD