First I am not an expert, but from everyone that I am asking you have to have a sanitizer in your pool, i.e. chlorine, bromine, or baquacil. Second I have a customer that is allergic to man made chlorine, but is fine in a swcg system. I also have a customer that is wanting to do a copper system and not sure I can do that as there is nothing to kill bacteria in the water just using a copper system.
Chlorine free pool systems.
- Thread starter Mr. McD
- Start date
Mr. McD said:
I have an experiment that you can do that might determine if chlorine is your irritant.
Step 1. Fill a 5 gallon bucket up with water from your tap and soak your legs in the water for 20-30 minutes to see if you get a reaction. If you get a reaction then clear up the skin and go to step 2. If you do not get a reaction then it may mean the tap water just did not trigger it, but go on to step 2.
Step 2. Fill a 5 gallon bucket of water with fresh RO/DI water. You can get this at most aquarium shops. Soak for 20-30 minutes again to see if you get a reaction. If you do get a reaction, then chlorine is not the irritant and the water itself is drying out the skin. If you do not get a reaction then try step 3.
Step 3. Use the same RO/DI water but add maybe 1/4 of a teaspoon of bleach. Chem geek or someone else might have the exact amount of bleach you should add to a 5 gallon bucket of water to get an appropriate amount of chlorine. I do know that you will need a very small amount of bleach. If you get a reaction from this, then I would say it is safe to say that chlorine is your irritant.
Might be the same thing, but there is fillers in man made chlorine is manufactured from oil products I think. But then again as I said earlier I am not an expert.
Chlorine is an element, it has been around a lot longer than man and is not man made. Manufactured from oil products? Salt water with a current passed through it produces hydrogen and chlorine just as in the SWG no oil.swimcmp said:
Mr. McD get a second opinion on your skin condition and do carry out the suggested 3 tests. DE is an excellent bacterial growth medium, plenty of hiding places, other than a few bucks what have you got to loose?
http://www.skininfection.com/AboutSkinInfection/Folliculitis.html
I am not sure this is really feasible. First Mr. McD would need a test kit that could measure his tap water FC level accurately. Second, my understanding is it that "public" water can be in >0 to 3 ppm range, which is one of his reasons for suspecting chlorine (he reacts when taking showers) and that is right about where one would want to chlorinate a pool with no CYA. Third, to properly chlorinate 5 gallons of water to say 3 ppm FC assuming no CYA, it will take a very small amount of bleach, small enough that a pipette or scale would be needed to measure accurately...I calculate somewhere around 920 microliters or 0.0311 ounces. The op might be able to get around that last one if he had a test kit and could use say a 100 gallon tub for the experiment but I am not sure it tells us much. The DI/RO only test idea might be interesting, since the OP has had a reaction to tap water.ping said:
I will be seeing a new doctor next month but I would expect the same diagnosis. An infection would not have a positive response to steroids. Steroids inhibit the immune response and would be more likely to make the infection worse.
teapot said:
Yes of course, the sooner you can get off the steroids the better. It's just with the dilution of chlorine at 1:1,000,000 it is very rare for allergic reations unless you already have eczema. You have said you suffered with poison oak several times so maybe this is just a cycle you are going through. I hope it gets cleared up soon.Mr. McD said:
Mr. McD,
Do you get your water from the Western Municipal Water District whose water quality report indicates that they use 1.8 ppm (ranges from 0.3 to 3.0) monochloramine as the residual disinfectant in their drinking water for the city of Riverside? They do NOT use chlorine (hypochlorous acid) for the residual. Some people have reported sensitivity to monochloramine and that is very different than chlorine. Also, if your pool was not properly maintained with sufficient levels of chlorine (including too high a CYA level), then it could have built up some monochloramine.
So your conclusion that the common factor is chlorine may be wrong, at least when it comes to your drinking water assuming your water is as described above. Chloramine sensitivity is possible (see chloramine.org) though this hasn't been shown through double-blind studies so is anecdotal speculation but still far more likely than chlorine (hypochlorous acid) sensitivity. Also, a properly managed pool with the right FC/CYA ratio has less than 1/10th the level of active chlorine (hypochlorous acid) than found in drinking water (when it uses chlorine instead of monochloramine).
Do you get your water from the Western Municipal Water District whose water quality report indicates that they use 1.8 ppm (ranges from 0.3 to 3.0) monochloramine as the residual disinfectant in their drinking water for the city of Riverside? They do NOT use chlorine (hypochlorous acid) for the residual. Some people have reported sensitivity to monochloramine and that is very different than chlorine. Also, if your pool was not properly maintained with sufficient levels of chlorine (including too high a CYA level), then it could have built up some monochloramine.
So your conclusion that the common factor is chlorine may be wrong, at least when it comes to your drinking water assuming your water is as described above. Chloramine sensitivity is possible (see chloramine.org) though this hasn't been shown through double-blind studies so is anecdotal speculation but still far more likely than chlorine (hypochlorous acid) sensitivity. Also, a properly managed pool with the right FC/CYA ratio has less than 1/10th the level of active chlorine (hypochlorous acid) than found in drinking water (when it uses chlorine instead of monochloramine).
linen said:
Linen - this is not correct. A pool with no CYA should have a FC level of 0.2-0.3 ppm at the maximum.
I don't disagree that it takes very little FC at 0 cya levels to properly chlorinate (i.e. kill bacteria in a typical indoor commercial pool with constant chlorination monitoring and control, which I have no experience with), however in practice that is not practical at this volume (5 gallons) since it would be an extremly small amount of FC. I took the amount we recommend to folks with outdoor pools that have 0 CYA and need to chlorinate their pool while CYA comes up. It was an attempt (mental exercise) to get at the very small amount of chlorine level needed in a bucket, which in IMO and as my previous post reflected, wasn't practical in the first place.carlscan26 said:
Welcome to TFP.
Forget the pool for a second. Since you feel it may be in your tap water, have you had the water tested? Please post those results. Are you on a well or public water supply?
Skin rash due to pool water exposure is usually agitated by either unbalanced PH or Combined Chloramines (CC), not free chlorine (FC). We advise shocking pool water anytime CC's are measured above 0.5ppm.
Pool stores are notrious for giving inaccurate test results...you need your own good test kit and test/adjust your water daily during the swim season, especially if you have sensitive skin.
Below is an interesting read
pool-school/swimming_pool_myths
Forget the pool for a second. Since you feel it may be in your tap water, have you had the water tested? Please post those results. Are you on a well or public water supply?
Skin rash due to pool water exposure is usually agitated by either unbalanced PH or Combined Chloramines (CC), not free chlorine (FC). We advise shocking pool water anytime CC's are measured above 0.5ppm.
Pool stores are notrious for giving inaccurate test results...you need your own good test kit and test/adjust your water daily during the swim season, especially if you have sensitive skin.
Below is an interesting read
pool-school/swimming_pool_myths
The biggest problem with this post is the lack of a picture of the affected area. A skin specialist would be the best doctor to see to clarify your issue. I would visit with a doctor about issues that could arise from not using a sanitizer in your pool before committing to a copper sulfate system. You may want to look into a UV system although that is only a small fix to the larger problem.
I appreciate all of the input. I have ordered a compleate test kit will post results for tap water and pool once it arrives.
swimcmp said:
I wouldn't even contemplate a copper sulphate system, copper ionising maybe.
Which is exactly what I run.carlscan26 said:
Making my way to the Deep End............
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