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Thread: Question on Spa Spill Over

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    wardsntx's Avatar
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    Question on Spa Spill Over

    OK,

    so the spill over on the spa trickle more than spills over. Obviously the higher I run pump, the water is pushed into the spa at a faster rate and hence a little more oompf on the spill over, but still not what I expect. PB is coming bac out to grind the flagstone down a little, but I am not convienced that wil solve the problem...anyone have any experience with this? My 9 year old told me to just add more water...wouldn't it be funny if that was the solution?


    I'll try to get a better pic, but maybe you can see the lack of water spilling over inthis pic:


    <a></a>
    Jay
    36' x19' Freeform, 16' waterfall w/ groto and slide, 5' x 10' sundeck, 12" raised spa. Pentair IntelliTouch, Pentair IntelliFlo 4 x 160, Master Temp 400, IntelliChlor Chlorine generator, Aqua Blue PebbleSheen

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    Guest
    well im no expert as you have probably seen, but i could give you a scientific reason why but i will keep it simple, you have such a wide opening that it can all come out nice and even and slow since there is so much space for it to escape, i garenteed that if it were half that size you would get twice as much spill out of the spa.

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    perhaps obvious... or maybe not?

    i assume you have isolation valves that you can manually turn on/off to your pool returns?

    turn your pool returns down, therefore diverting more to spa?


    not sure how grinding is going to help, but curious...


    fwiw, still some grinding to be done on mine to as one side is a little higher than the other...
    we spent a lot of time trying to get mine not to run down the front of the spa... well, a lot of time talking/arguing about it, anyway.... a few hours modifying (adding to) the bluestone spillover material.
    18,000 gallon gunite free form, with spa, 4x160, EasyTouch, SWCG, Pentair cartr filter, Colorlogic lights.

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    wardsntx's Avatar
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    Well, the grinding is more for a high spot on mine too....Guess I'll experiement with the valve settings...
    Jay
    36' x19' Freeform, 16' waterfall w/ groto and slide, 5' x 10' sundeck, 12" raised spa. Pentair IntelliTouch, Pentair IntelliFlo 4 x 160, Master Temp 400, IntelliChlor Chlorine generator, Aqua Blue PebbleSheen

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    I suspect you'll be surprised (and pleased) with valve adjustments....


    guess what I sell (other than regulators!)



    steve
    18,000 gallon gunite free form, with spa, 4x160, EasyTouch, SWCG, Pentair cartr filter, Colorlogic lights.

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    Hi, can you tell me how much water you loose to evaporation every day?
    i'VE FALLEN IN AND i DON'T WANT TO GET OUT.

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    wardsntx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenbrla
    I suspect you'll be surprised (and pleased) with valve adjustments....


    guess what I sell (other than regulators!)



    steve
    Well, I played with the valve today, its an auto valve, so I flip the swith to get it turning and then park it in neutral. It did increase the water flow to the spillover, but have to almost completely shut of returns to pool to get it to make a difference and the jets almost go into spa mode. Even then it still doesn't cascade as I would like. ....any other suggestions?

    medelman2k - I couldn't tell you about evaporation. I have an auto fill on the pool, so unless I happen to be standing next to it, I would never know when it came on.
    Jay
    36' x19' Freeform, 16' waterfall w/ groto and slide, 5' x 10' sundeck, 12" raised spa. Pentair IntelliTouch, Pentair IntelliFlo 4 x 160, Master Temp 400, IntelliChlor Chlorine generator, Aqua Blue PebbleSheen

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    hmm...

    well, a couple thoughts...

    1. i'm surprised that your pb didn't install manual valves in addition to your valves with actuators. we call these isolation valves in the industrial world, and allow you to control what going on just in case you lose power, or you have to replace or service your automated valve.

    2. you can always add these (after you complain to your pb, and try to get him to do it)

    3. this would allow you to fine tune your situation independent of your actuated valves, which of course they have stops in them that can be adjusted also.

    4. if you have more pool returns than spa returns, you're going to have to have more water diverted to your spa.... And, your spillover is Wide (as is mine), so its going to take a lot of water to make it look the way you want

    5. the only reason not to want to return most of your water to the spa all of the time is that some places in your pool may suffer a little circulation loss... but then again, maybe not.

    6. you could have one mode for "pool" with most/all returns to pool, and one mode for "spillover" with most/all returns to the spa.

    by the way... are you sucking water from your spa in Pool mode? If you are, this is your problem. The spa drain should be closed when you want spillover.


    guess it was more than a couple thoughts..


    you can get this to work how you want!!!... just keep working it, and asking... this is easy stuff...(and fun)

    have fun!!!!
    18,000 gallon gunite free form, with spa, 4x160, EasyTouch, SWCG, Pentair cartr filter, Colorlogic lights.

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    wardsntx's Avatar
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    Thanks STevenbrla,

    Actually, there is a manual valve too...the auto turns when in spa mode to divert the flow to the spa, but when in pool mode it is equal...there is also a manual valve that controls flow to the pool returns and to the water feature...If I close the pool returns all the way...I get the type of action out f the spa that I want, but my bubbler on my baja step and my returns shut all the way down and my jets in my spa spin and slightly bubble. If I crack the valve back just a little to get flow to the pool returns, it is week in certain areas of the pool and i loose the action slightly. I think I can live with this, but I don't want to sacrifice the circulation in the pool. I guess I could increase the pump RPM, but then thi defeats the energy conservation of the 4 x160.

    Maybe I'll drill a hole in the return to the spa and insert a garden hose...then whe I want more spa spill over, I'll turn the hose on and force more wtar throught the system!

    Just Kidding
    Jay
    36' x19' Freeform, 16' waterfall w/ groto and slide, 5' x 10' sundeck, 12" raised spa. Pentair IntelliTouch, Pentair IntelliFlo 4 x 160, Master Temp 400, IntelliChlor Chlorine generator, Aqua Blue PebbleSheen

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Ok...

    just to make sure you understand that you can... as you think about all your options

    1. the automated valves CAN be adjusted so that they don't open and/or close all the way. there are cams and micro switches in them that control where they stop.

    2. think about how things are plumbed, and what can replumbed easily (at the pad) to make things work better. imo, your pb shouldn't have put your bubbler and returns on the same line.

    let that be a lesson to those looking to build... all water features should have their own line with at minimum its own manual valve... preferably an automated one. don't let your pb pipe everthing together.... slim chance that everthing will be balanced without valves to make fine adjustments.


    3. consider adding a "spillover" mode.... that sophisticated intellitouch can handle it..... worst case, you might have to install another automated valve.

    by the way... your pool is beautiful.... and it sure is fun looking!
    18,000 gallon gunite free form, with spa, 4x160, EasyTouch, SWCG, Pentair cartr filter, Colorlogic lights.

  11. Back To Top    #11
    wardsntx's Avatar
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    Thanks...we are very proud of it...and yeah it is a blast!

    So here's the flow for the returns and you tell me if this sounds like a good idea... I'll start from the filter...

    out of the filter into the heater, out of the heater through the SWG to the auto valve which is open flow between both the spa and the pool (this is the one that auto turns when put into spa mode and closes the returns to the pool) then out of that valve to another manual valve. that valve then regulates the water to the main pool returns or through and down to the "water Feature" (that's the bubbler). SO If I turn the manual valve to the left, back towards the flow of water coming in to it, it restricts the flow of water to the pool returns and back to the spa return, thus forcing more water through the spa return and giving me more flow through the spa. But this restricts all water to the pool returns and to the water feature (bubbler). So I don't think there is any plumbing at the pad that would help?????maybe I am wrong. Here is a pic...hopefully this will make sense.

    <a></a>
    Jay
    36' x19' Freeform, 16' waterfall w/ groto and slide, 5' x 10' sundeck, 12" raised spa. Pentair IntelliTouch, Pentair IntelliFlo 4 x 160, Master Temp 400, IntelliChlor Chlorine generator, Aqua Blue PebbleSheen

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    hmm...

    1. Is your drain (suction) from your spa closed? This is key!

    answer this, and then i'll tell you how mine is... and what i would do if i were you. (for what that's worth... less than 2 cents)

    steve
    18,000 gallon gunite free form, with spa, 4x160, EasyTouch, SWCG, Pentair cartr filter, Colorlogic lights.

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    jay,

    tell me what those pipes are, going into the ground, left to right... (ok, please)

    and by the way.... is that extra pump still sitting there???

    steve
    18,000 gallon gunite free form, with spa, 4x160, EasyTouch, SWCG, Pentair cartr filter, Colorlogic lights.

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Guest
    if i could ask a question here, whats that wisperflo pump doing there, it doesn't look like its hooked up to anything.

    here my
    .5 cents

    cannon balls in the spa.

    all kidding aside you pool looks great.

  15. Back To Top    #15
    wardsntx's Avatar
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    Down boys...that whisperflo was moved behind my slide and waterfall and is the pump for that feature!

    OK, pipes left to right going into the ground:

    Spa Return

    Air Blower for spa

    Pool Return

    Water Feature Return

    Spa Suction

    Skimmer 2 suction

    Skimmer 1 suction

    Polaris Cleaner return

    Does that help?
    Jay
    36' x19' Freeform, 16' waterfall w/ groto and slide, 5' x 10' sundeck, 12" raised spa. Pentair IntelliTouch, Pentair IntelliFlo 4 x 160, Master Temp 400, IntelliChlor Chlorine generator, Aqua Blue PebbleSheen

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    absolutely helps...

    your fix is just a matter of few ball valves (what else would you expect to hear from a valve salesman?)

    seriously, every one of those pipes going in (and coming out of) the ground needs its own ball valve.

    that way you can tune each component virtually perfectly.

    ball valves.... just like those on the back of your waterfall, except bigger...


    make sense... you open all those 3 way valves however you need to for each function and adjust your returns (less for more spillover), your bubbler (more for more bubbles).... etc

    will it be perfect? hmmm... maybe, maybe not. You Are trying to do a lot with one pump! you know that, right?

    but having a manual, 2-way ball valve on every line will add tons of flexibility.... if i'm not mistaken, you're looking at less than $20 per valve, and some glue...

    imo, your pb should've done this for you. shame on him. (mine cut stupid corners, too)

    my set up is far from perfect, and i'm not proud of the craftsmanship of the plumbing, but it does work pretty well.... I may very well replumb it myself.... i'll try to post a pic of it if i have one.

    Repeat after me, everyone........ Ball Valves
    18,000 gallon gunite free form, with spa, 4x160, EasyTouch, SWCG, Pentair cartr filter, Colorlogic lights.

  17. Back To Top    #17
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    Try turning the three way valve that selects between the spa suction and the two pool suction lines all the way to pool suction and see if that helps.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    ok... mine is so ugly, i never had even taken a pic.... so i just went out there in the dark and took one.

    my suction lines are on the left, returns on the right...

    most have ball valves (with gray handles) on them, the deck jets and cleaner booster pump have red handles...

    not a big deal to see them, but thought it might help somebody...


    and yes, i plan to paint my pvc... and clean up around the pad...

    steve

    18,000 gallon gunite free form, with spa, 4x160, EasyTouch, SWCG, Pentair cartr filter, Colorlogic lights.

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Guest
    think you got the wrong pic, i dont see your equipment in the photo here, enless i missed somthing.

  20. Back To Top    #20
    wardsntx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Try turning the three way valve that selects between the spa suction and the two pool suction lines all the way to pool suction and see if that helps.
    You know...I thought about that...I'll give it a shot tomorrow....not going to expect too much, but it does make sense...keeping more water in the spa for spillover instead of some sucking down and some spilling over...


    Thanks Jason.


    If that doesn't work, then I guess it's back to the balls. Ball valves that is!
    Jay
    36' x19' Freeform, 16' waterfall w/ groto and slide, 5' x 10' sundeck, 12" raised spa. Pentair IntelliTouch, Pentair IntelliFlo 4 x 160, Master Temp 400, IntelliChlor Chlorine generator, Aqua Blue PebbleSheen

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