Heater shutting down SWG

[Poolschoolgrad]

Green gel inside the cell would indicate it is reaching or has reached the end of it's service life.

 

[mas985]

In most cases I agree, calcium scale reduces conductivity but I have also heard of cases where scale had increased conductivity and increased the current. Once the cell was cleaned, the current dropped. I know this is somewhat anecdotal but I also think it is possible depending on the scale compounds formed in the cell.

Also, I would expect a cell at end of life to have low amps not high amps. At least that is what the majority of people have experienced.

 

[Strannik]

must be something really funky in that water to increase the conductivity of scale
metal debris can cause it if they short out the plates, but that's really the only thing i can think about

when cells are dying/get dirty you usually see the voltage go up until it reaches limit, and then current starts dropping.

green gel inside the cell means you need to clean your cell more often as it looks like you got a lot of scale mixed with some coppery stuff. got nothing to do with it's life span, as the cell itself doesn't have anything in it to produce green color.

although the cell will stop working until it's cleaned properly and not cleaning it does reduce life span.

 

[mas985]

must be something really funky in that water to increase the conductivity of scale
metal debris can cause it if they short out the plates, but that's really the only thing i can think about

A pure short would probably shut the unit down all the time so my thought is that it would have to be something that is more conductive than the surrounding salt water but not a short. I agree that it is a long shot but the current is much too high for the salt level and water temp so something is not right.

when cells are dying/get dirty you usually see the voltage go up until it reaches limit, and then current starts dropping.

The Goldline units are fixed voltage. The voltage may increase some due to the lower amps but for these units, the biggest indicator of a failing cell is the lower current.

 

[Poolschoolgrad]

With copper in the water, I have seen 2 cells with the light blue/green gel inside and within a short time, the cells failed. Water balance had been maintained and the cell inspected regularly for the previous 5 years.

Here is one theory:
As the cell voltage and amperage changed or as the coating began to wear on the cell plates, it caused the copper to collect within the cell. The copper combined with scale and formed light green crystals on the grids inside the cell. When cleaning the cell in a mild acid solution, the copper/scale mixture forms a gel or paste consistency.

In both cases, the presence of blue/green copper build up within the cell was an early visual indication of problems within the cell.
What type of change within the cell, chemically or electrically, would cause the cell to suddenly draw the copper out of suspension and collect within the cell?

In both of the above cases, there was no further indication of blue/green build up within the cell after replacement and the first one has been almost 2 years.
The cell failures in each case were as Mark described with low amp and higher voltage. In both cases, the salinity readout on the Aquarite was much lower than the Taylor test. The temperature readout remained accurate.

At first, i believed the OP's problem to be only that the salinity level was at the breakpoint of high salt at 3600 ppm and the increase in temperature from the heater nudged it over the threshold shutting down the system. Even though the problems are opposite, with much higher salt readings than the Taylor kit, higher than normal amps combined with the presence of copper(?) within the cell, I believe there is something wrong within the cell.

 

[Strannik]

when cells are dying/get dirty you usually see the voltage go up until it reaches limit, and then current starts dropping.

The Goldline units are fixed voltage. The voltage may increase some due to the lower amps but for these units, the biggest indicator of a failing cell is the lower current.

my statement still holds, it's just that Goldline units always operate at the limit

 

[Strannik]

When cleaning the cell in a mild acid solution, the copper/scale mixture forms a gel or paste consistency.

it just means you aren't cleaning it fully. At the end of each cleaning there should be no paste/gel/scale left on the plates. If there is enough scale formed on the plates to turn into a gel - means you missed the time when you had to clean it.

i'd say if the scale layer is 1 mm - that's already too much. in some of the cells which have small gap between the plates that would restrict the water flow severely.

the primary indicator of cell failing is low amps drawn on a clean cell and normal water temperature/salinity
depending on the unit design it may show different alarms, like 'low salt' or 'clean cell' even though the salt is ok and cell is clean, but it all comes down to the cell not pulling it's current.

 

[Aquatica]

Thanks for the replies.

I've seen the green gel in another cell and that one failed. there was more though.

yes I believe low amps then cell fails.

maybe the green gel like scale is from corrosion of the chord or maybe the sensor?

Ok installed a new cell but still same high cell current. I'm thinking now it must be the board.

salt level is ok, cell is ok..what else could it be?

 

[mas985]

One possibility is that you have very high salt and for some reason the test kit is not giving a correct reading. I would have believed the Taylor test kit over other tests but if the reagents are bad, then perhaps it is not indicating the correct salt level. Also, the end point is sometimes tricky. We are talking about the Taylor K-1766 test kit correct?

Another possibility is the cable might be partially shorted so it is reading higher amps than it should although the voltage of 26.6 seems too high for an amp reading of 7.99. My unit's voltage will drop below 25v when the amps is that high.

The problem I see is that the volts, amps, temperature and salt level do not fit on the SWG characteristc line so one or more of the values are incorrect. It could be a bad board, cable or test kit.

 

[Aquatica]

One possibility is that you have very high salt and for some reason the test kit is not giving a correct reading. I would have believed the Taylor test kit over other tests but if the reagents are bad, then perhaps it is not indicating the correct salt level. Also, the end point is sometimes tricky. We are talking about the Taylor K-1766 test kit correct?

Another possibility is the cable might be partially shorted so it is reading higher amps than it should although the voltage of 26.6 seems too high for an amp reading of 7.99. My unit's voltage will drop below 25v when the amps is that high.

The problem I see is that the volts, amps, temperature and salt level do not fit on the SWG characteristc line so one or more of the values are incorrect. It could be a bad board, cable or test kit.

Thanks Mark. definitely not the cell or chord. salt is not high. yes I think Taylor K-1766 fairly new..6-8 months old. don't think copper is in the water as the heater is gas. or does gas heater have some copper in them? I stay away from reg electrical heaters. Had a major staining problem once when the copper core eroded into a pool and I used some CalHypo to shock...stains everywhere! never again . I only recommend The Heat Pro now. actually I refuse to install reg electric heaters.

 

[mas985]

Well boards are pretty expensive to replace so you might just try reducing the salt level and see what happens. That could be enough to get everything to work ok.

 

[Aquatica]

Well boards are pretty expensive to replace so you might just try reducing the salt level and see what happens. That could be enough to get everything to work ok.

I really don't think it is the salt level. I've been maintaining this pool 2 months now without any problem and then one day it starts to act up. I could always use a board and keep it in stock if needed. got a few SWG run pools never know when I might need a board.

 

[Strannik]

if you have another unit in stock, maybe try the whole unit?

although i'd tend to agree that it's temp+salt combination that does it, or there is a short somewhere

 

[Aquatica]

if you have another unit in stock, maybe try the whole unit?

although i'd tend to agree that it's temp+salt combination that does it, or there is a short somewhere

yeah could do that but I want to get some experience taking the board out and installing it so in the future I can do it no prob in the field.

btw I just checked another one of my pools and the cell current was at 7.46 @ 83F. this is 22,000 gal pool and swg% is set at 50%.

does this sound right? or maybe its going to be time to clean this cell shortly. some scale could raise cell current. SWG is working well just concerned that cell current is a little high compared to my other pools SWG's. this is T15 cells btw.

 

[mas985]

What was the voltage and what was the reported salt level?

That one is high too. Normally, at 3000 ppm, 83F, my unit draws 6.3 amps.

 

[Aquatica]

What was the voltage and what was the reported salt level?

That one is high too. Normally, at 3000 ppm, 83F, my unit draws 6.3 amps.

will check thanks for the reply. my client has a heater..aqua cal so maybe that might make some difference? I think it needs a clean I will check it tomorrow.

 

[Strannik]

btw are you measuring real current, or just going off what SWG is telling you?

 

[Aquatica]

btw are you measuring real current, or just going off what SWG is telling you?

going by SWG. although readings might not be right on I think its best to go with the readings of the swg.

 

[Strannik]

well if the reading is wrong that would explain why you are getting 8 amps in situation where you normally wouldn't.
not saying it's the case here, but definitely a possibility. i'd measure real current to see if it matches what SWG is showing

 

[Aquatica]

discovered the problem...the previous installer hooked the swg power up straight from the breaker box when it should be hooked up to the time clock.

the swg had been on for 2 years and control panel was trippin out and cell was on its last leg due to never being cleaned so we installed a complete new system. all is working well now. thought i'd share..

all the best.