Help with my new toy.

[TimS]

John,

When brining or marinating chops, or anything else for that matter, is it at all helpful to poke holes in the meat, as with a fork or something? I've never done it, but it seems it might improve absorption of the marinade. Maybe, maybe not. DW's typical marinade for chops is Italian dressing, sometimes mixed with beer. It seems to me that the dressing is too thick to do much more than flavor the surface, but...

I've rarely tried a true brine on anything. For these chops, I didn't even think of such a thing, because they were pretty juicy to begin with. Looking back at it, I'm sure it would have improved them, and certainly would not have hurt anything. I'll have to keep that in mind for next time.

I made the trek to Sam's last evening, and grabbed a couple bags of characoal, some bleach, and a few other things. While I was there, I took a walk past the meat case, and saw 10lb shoulder for $1.58/lb. Since DW already picked one up at the local grocery (for $1.89/lb,) I didn't get one this time. I'll have to keep it in mind for the future.

Loin and chops are done at way lower temperatures than a shoulder or butt, and dealing with a loin or chops is like a totally different animal than the other roasts.

Do you mean that you cook them at lower temps, or that cooking is complete when the meat reaches a lower temp?

I've heard of throwing beans in the smoker, but chili's another new one on me. Sounds interesting.

I'm getting stuff lined up to smoke that shoulder this Saturday. Since I haven't done it before, there's a lot to think about. I also need to make a few mods to my smoker that I haven't done yet. I'll get on that either tonight or tomorrow night so it'll be ready early Saturday morning. I'm anticipating around 7-9 hours on the smoker for a 7lb. We'll see how close to that I actually get. Being the first time, it may well take longer, since I'm still working on holding an even temp.

I'll have to check out that site too. There's sure a lot to learn about this stuff. And here I thought "get a smoker, some charcoal, some flavoring wood, and a piece of meat, and you're ready to go." Talk about naive!

 

[Henry Porter]

Tim can you post a pic of your smoker?
Thanks for a great thread, very interesting read :-D

 

[Molson]

His is similar to this one.
[attachment=2:38fyfi9x]681.JPG[/attachment:38fyfi9x]

We now use Traegers, got this one last year:
[attachment=1:38fyfi9x]IMG00352.jpg[/attachment:38fyfi9x]

We like 'em.
[attachment=0:38fyfi9x]catering 012.jpg[/attachment:38fyfi9x]

 

[Henry Porter]

Oh Molson! They look so good. I have spent so much time looking at smokers on the net. My favourite site when I was deep down in the "have to buy a smoker no matter what" was Klose pits. A texan of course! that If I understood it correct manufacturing all his products in his own workshop. He had the whole range from the smaller, to one's similar to what you just posted.
There is something brutal about them Molson. Weighing all this pounds and all black, slick in it's shape despite the weight and just pure functionallity! That makes them so good looking to me.
I signed up on a bbq forum and was so into buying one until a person very close to me reminded me that we can't afford one until this little project in the yard of ours is completed So after that have I stopped dreaming but with this set of pics do I think I will sneak out on the net again eye shopping for the perfect buy

 

[Henry Porter]

Oh I forgott to say when I look at those pictures it makes me feel that I wanna be there, right in the middle! learning, watching, smelling ,eating and having a cold one while watching the real masters, just hanging out! Attend to a smoker gathering must be an awesome thing to do!? When I get a chance to come over to the states will I absolutely ear-mark one day for that if it's possible.
If you have more action pics please post a few, it will make me slobber

 

[JohnT]

For brining, I don't think holes would help. The meat just absorbs the liquid.

For marinating, I use an injector on shoulder or pork sirloin roast, which is a small shoulder type roast.

I just brine with salt, sugar, minced garlic and onion, pat dry and add rub on loin or chops.

I only cook loin and chops to 150F, and some folks pull them at 145F. Much longer and you get dry meat.

 

[flyweed]

for brining chops, I like nothing better than a mix of pineapple juice, soy sauce, diced onion and some salt and pepper...makes for a very tasty, juicy chop.

It's the salt and acidic acid in a brine that helps tenderize the meat and let those tasty juices into the tissue

 

[TimS]

Tim can you post a pic of your smoker?
Thanks for a great thread, very interesting read :-D

Matts, I don't have a pic of mine readily available, but it looks like this. http://www.chargriller.com/store/popup_image.php?pID=34 The difference between that one and mine is that I don't have the warming plate attachment (the flat plate on top of the firebox,) and mine doesn't have that cool, yellow aura. :lol: This is an interesting unit. It is sold as two separate pieces, each designed to be a grill in its own right. The firebox is designed to be a small table top grill, and the larger unit is designed to be a standard direct-heat grill. When they are combined like this, you wind up with an offset smoker, but you can still use each side as a normal direct-heat grill. You just can't take them apart at that point, because there are a couple of really large holes in the sides after they are combined. I've only used it a couple of times. The first time was immediately after initially seasoning it, and I used it as a direct grill for beef ribs. That was a resounding success. The second time was as a smoker for a few pork chops, but I'm not yet accustomed to regulating the heat that well, (and there are a few modifications that need to be made to make it really stabilize the heat properly.) I also was under the impression that pork had to be cooked to 74C (just for you, Matts. I had to look it up ) in all cases. JohnT has since informed me that this isn't true, and I way overcooked them. They were tasty, but rather dry.

Thanks to everyone for the recipes, the links, and the tips. I've read quite a bit, and there's so much more to learn. It's interesting to read the different views between the various sites. The only real problem I've run into so far is that they have so many different recipes, it's impossible to try them all.

I didn't get a chance to work on the mods last night. My youngest had a baseball game, and they got trounced 783-5. (It wasn't really that bad, but it sure seemed like it.) In our team's defense, the other team was all mutants. This league is supposed to be age-based, but I swear these kids were two or more years older than ours. The smallest one on the opposing team was way bigger than our biggest.

Anyway, I've gotten a basket for the firebox that I hope works out well. I'll do the smokestack mod tonight. I'm planning to flip the charcoal grate in the main body to use as a baffle for this attempt. Supposedly some people have had success with this approach. MyBad, which mods have you tried?

For tomorrow I'm planning the butt, some baked beans (found what looks like a tasty recipe as long as I tone it down a bit - DW and two of the kids don't like real spicy,) and a couple fatties (they sound really good.) I'm curious how much, if any, smoke flavor the beans will really absorb. I'll poke around and see what else I can come up with to throw on there, since I'll have lots of extra space. While I'm cooking, I'll spend quite a bit of time reading more. (Also have to clean the pool tomorrow. Haven't vacuummed in almost two weeks, and it shows.)

I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Tim.

 

[Henry Porter]

Thanks Tim for your detailed answer.
It will be interesting to follow your journey with this smoker Keep us updated please

 

[TimS]

Well, so far this has been an interesting exercise. My beginning charcoal was the Frontier brand, the "Made in USA" version. I started the fire at 6:15 this morning. I didn't manage to get it to 300° until 7:30. I then let it cool down to 220° and got the butt on at 8:15. I managed to get thin smoke instead of white, puffy clouds, but I don't know if it was really "blue."

I chased the fire for a bit, getting the damper adjusted to the right place, but finally managed to hold a steady 220°. Everything worked fine until 9:30 when the coals burned down. I added a handful of unlit charcoal, and about half a chimney of partially lit. At this point I was out of the original charcoal, so started using the Frontier "Made in Mexico" version that I picked up at Sam's.

About 10:15a, I threw on a fattie filled with chedder cheese and egg.

I started chasing the smoke around this time. I had added three fist-sized chunks of wood to the coals, and they lit up. I pulled two out and put the third off to the side, out of the coals. I adjusted back and forth with one and two chunks until I finally got it settled. I was probably over working it, and should have left well enough alone.

About 11:15, I started fighting the fire again. The temp dropped to 210°, and I couldn't get it back up again. I opened the damper all the way, and turned the grill so the damper was facing into the breeze.

At 11:30, I threw on some chicken quarters, an ABT, a stuffed green pepper, and some mushrooms. I mopped the butt, and the butt temp was 128° (up from 55° when I first put it on,) and I put on a pan of baked beans.

12:00p, I managed to get the heat back up to 215°, but it wouldn't hold. About 12:15, I pulled the "snacks" off the grill. They were excellent, especially the fattie. I had only made one, because I didn't expect anyone else to be interested. One taste, and they snarfed it down. I should have made two. By 12:30, it had fallen to 175°, and I was fighting the fire again. At that point, I pulled out the supercharger, and dug a hole in the middle of the coals trying to get better airflow. I continued to fight the temp, adding a bit of charcoal, and blowing as necessary, but had a terrible time getting above 200°

About 2:00, I added 2lbs of unlit charcoal and another fully lit chimney. I managed to get the temp back to 215° for about 10 minutes, but that was the last time it would get that high all day.

Around 2:45, a pretty severe storm blew through, so I moved the cooker into the open garage door. I managed to set the smoke alarms off twice trying to get the heat up. At 3:30, when the temp dropped back to 175° for the third time, I gave it up as a bad job, and moved the butt, chicken, and beans to the oven. The butt temp was at 142°, the chicken was 160° and the beans were 165°.

At 4:30, the chicken was done and the butt was still hovering around 145° so we ate the chicken and the beans. Both were excellent. About the time I started writing this, the butt reached 165°, so I stopped to foil it and put it back in the oven. It's slowly cooking, so it will be a while yet.

There are at least three versions of Frontier 100% Hardwood Lump Charcoal. There is the "Made in Argentina" version that gets very poor ratings, and the "Made in USA" version that gets high ratings. I didn't find a rating for the "Made in Mexico" version that I got from Sam's, but based on my experience with it today, it would be useful for brake pads, or as a fire retardant. That stuff just did not want to burn. I could get the coals up to a really nice cherry red ember with the blower, but as soon as I turned it off, they'd die off again. I'm not sure if I was doing something wrong, or if that is just a poor charcoal. I plan to play with it at a later point when I'm not trying to cook and see if I can come up with any answers as to where I might have gone wrong. (NOTE: I'm not debating the relative merits of things made in the USA vs. made anywhere else, only these bags of charcoal.)

It will be at least a couple of hours before the butt hits 190°. We'll see what we get at that point.

Edited for clarity.

 

[TimS]

Well, I pulled the butt out of the oven at 8:00p. Wrapped it in a blanket, and dropped it in the cooler to sit for an hour. At 9:00, I pulled it out to start pulling. It was certainly done. It almost fell apart on its own. It had a smoke ring almost 1/2" thick (I measured ) and was really tasty. The family pronounced it my best pulled pork ever, of course considering that this was the only one I've ever done, I'm not sure that is much of a compliment.

After sitting back and pondering the events of the day, I'm convinced that the problem I had was the charcoal. I'm not a lump charcoal expert, by any means, but some of that stuff just doesn't look right. Quite a bit of it is really shiny, and I found quite a few things in the ashes that looked something like lava rock, but not quite.

The problem certainly wasn't lack of air, or not enough charcoal. The ventilation through the firebox was excellent, and I never let the charcoal level get incredibly low. Since I didn't have the problem with the first bag, it has to be the second bag that is the problem.

 

[JohnT]

About 12:15, I pulled the "snacks" off the grill. They were excellent, especially the fattie. I had only made one, because I didn't expect anyone else to be interested. One taste, and they snarfed it down. I should have made two.

Ahem! I told you so!

Make at least two if you like sausage at all, because they disappear quickly.

I've come inside to find my kids and friends starting on the second one when I haven't had any yet because I went back out to tend to the smoker. Teenagers are like having a pack of starving hyenas prowling around the smoker.

 

[TimS]

Ahem! I told you so!

Make at least two if you like sausage at all, because they disappear quickly.

I've come inside to find my kids and friends starting on the second one when I haven't had any yet because I went back out to tend to the smoker. Teenagers are like having a pack of starving hyenas prowling around the smoker.

Yes, you did! I should have listened.
When I mentioned it to DW, her response was "Sausage on the smoker?!?! And you're going to put egg and cheese in it?!?! Yuck!!" I mentioned that she likes sausage and cheese in her scrambled eggs, so why not eggs and cheese in her sausage. The youngest thought the name "fattie" was disgusting and wanted nothing to do with it. The oldest is on a "no red meat" kick, so she wasn't going to touch it, and the middle one was gone. Based on all that, I thought I'd have it to myself, and one would be enough. WRONG!!! As soon as I brought it in and they smelled it, DW and youngest were all over it. Oldest didn't want to break her no red meat streak, so she didn't have any. Still, two would have been better. I won't make that mistake again. Of course if the middle one is around, I'll need an extra one just to feed him. :lol:

Tim.

 

[flyweed]

sounds like you did pretty good for a pretty "cool" smoker....You wan to try and shoot for 225 and above..so you were on the low end the entire smoke. Did you check your thermometer to make sure it was accurate? Just boil some water and stick it in, and see if it goes up to 212 and stays there.

 

[TimS]

Yes, it turned out well, even for all the trouble I had with it. In fact, I had some for lunch today. It was probably even better the second time around

I have 4 thermometers in this thing. The one that came with it, mounted at the top of the lid, two that I added at grate level on either side of the handle, and a Taylor electronic one that I picked up at Lowe's (when I couldn't find an ET-73.) All of them (even the cheap one that came with the smoker) read between 209 and 211 in boiling water. At my altitude of 800 ft., water should boil at about 210.5, so they're pretty accurate. (I also checked the small instant-read that I just picked up, and the meat thermometer, and the candy thermometer that I already had. The instant-read one is off by 10, the meat thermometer read boiling water at 180, and the candy thermometer read 195.)

The electronic one was stuck through a potato and sitting in the center of the grill. That was the one I use using the most. At the beginning, that one was reading 15-20 higher than the others. I didn't find that too surprising, since the center would naturally be hotter than the edges. Once the cooking chamber got hot, they all stayed pretty close together until I started having trouble with the fire. By the time the electronic one was down to 190, the others were all below 150. For quite a bit of the time, it was cool enough that I could actually put my hand on the lid. By the time I gave up, I could have left my hand on the lid indefinitely.

I had plenty of charcoal in it (which is probably your next question ) and I could get it really glowing well if I kept a blower on it, but as soon as I turned off the blower, and relied on normal airflow it would cool back down. I had the damper wide open, and toward the end, had the ash drawer partially open, as well. I was getting a fairly constant stream of thin smoke through the chimney, so the airflow looked pretty good, it just wouldn't burn.

The only thing I can figure is that this bag of charcoal is bad. Like I said, there were some things in there that didn't look like wood, but I don't know what they were. I'm not sure how it could burn so cool and still stay lit, but that's what it appeared to be doing. It acted as if it was starved for air, but there should have been plenty. I didn't have any significant ash build up, and there was plenty of air flow all around and through the fire basket. When I had started with a different bag, everything was working fine. Unfortunately I only had about 3-4 lbs of that, and went through that in the first two hours.

What's interesting is that doing a search for this brand of charcoal, I find no one else who has had this problem with it. Some rave about how good it is, some are rather noncommittal, but no one has stated that it is this bad.

I'm not giving up, but that may be the last time for this bag.

 

[TimS]

I thought I'd add an update to this. Since I've been playing with this thing for about a month, I've learned a few things. The most important thing I learned is that the problems I've had have been mostly self-inflicted! (Huh. Imagine that. )

One, I decided that the basket I was using for the charcoal is too small, so I built a bigger one (the biggest I could fit through the door) out of expanded metal. After the first time I used the new basket, and watched the fire closely, I decided that the real problem was that I was adding too much charcoal, and the small charcoal chunks were choking out the burning stuff. I discovered that although it looked like I had a good bed of coals, only the upper layer was really burning. The lower layers were dying out almost completely, but by applying a blower, there was enough additional air to bring them back quickly.

I then decided to test this theory. I did this test with the cook chamber empty, so I wasn't worried about getting anything cooked or burnt. I built a small fire in the firebox, and watched the temps. They came up just fine, and I could hold 240 indefinitely. I kept slowly adding charcoal, never adding as much as I thought it should take to keep it there. After about 3 hours of holding it right where I wanted it, I added the amount of charcoal I'd been using in the first couple of attempts. Sure enough, within 30 minutes, the temp was down, and I had a horrible time bringing it back up. So much for the "plenty of air flow" idea.

I've also discovered that the position of the fire basket within the firebox makes a big difference. Closer to the cook chamber will result in temps at least 20 degrees higher with no other changes.

Last Saturday, I tried again, and was able to keep the temps 220-240 all day, by never putting in as much charcoal as I thought I needed. I also was busy enough that I wasn't watching it so closely, and thus not trying to micro-manage the thing. I'd check it about every 1/2 hour, and adjust as needed, although it mostly didn't need it. If I just left it alone, it did fine. :lol:

Anyway, so far, I've used this to cook a pork butt, pork loin steaks, pork chops, pork spare ribs, chicken thighs and breasts, stuffed mushrooms, stuffed jalapenos, sauteed veggies, and several fatties (the garlic and cheese has been the family's favorite so far.) I've also used it to grill hamburgers by taking the damper out of the cook chamber. Removing the damper, I was able to hold the temps at about 375 for quite a while.

The spare ribs I did last Saturday cooked faster than I expected. I had anticipated about 6 hours, but they were done after 5. I had to let them soak for an hour, since our guests hadn't arrived early. They came out so tender, a lot of the meat fell right off the bone when you'd pick it up. Everyone raved about them.

The chicken marinade recipe that came with the grill is fantastic. It's a soy sauce, vinegar, and oil base, and makes for terrific, juicy, tender, and flavorful chicken. I've used this three times on the chicken, with minor variations each time. I'm slowly fine-tuning it into something I really love.

I still need to invest in a quality remote thermometer, like the ET-73.

In the near future, I'm planning some beef ribs and a brisket.

 

[flyweed]

sounds like you are learning the "process"....your stuffed mushrooms and jalapeno's sound yummy...I am putting togehter 3 Fatties right now to smoke. All using hot sausage..then I am putting a layer of provolone cheese, fresh baby spinach leaves, and pepperoni slices in them and rolling them up..they taste great, and have just a little heat..if I want more..I sprinkle a little Cayenne on top during the last 20 minutes of smoking. Can't wait to have em for supper
Dan

 

[TimS]

Now that sounds good! I'll have to try that combination, too. I tried a bacon-wrapped one last weekend, but it didn't really go over very well - in fact, I just ate the last of it at lunch today, where the garlic and cheese didn't make it through the day, even though I rationed it.

DW and I both really like mushrooms. None of the kids do, but the middle one really likes these stuffed, smoked ones. He's also the one that likes the stuffed jalepenos. It's amazing how mild they get after a couple of hours in the smoker.

I'm still working on the mushroom stuffing to come up with the perfect blend. It's getting there.

 

[zea3]

We are on our second Char-griller. We don't have the side box, just the main grill. Hubby loves it! He likes that he can get a really hot fire going to seer steaks. That leads to the eventual heat rust and destruction of the wire basket that holds the coals, but he loves it anyway!

 

[TimS]

We are on our second Char-griller. We don't have the side box, just the main grill. Hubby loves it! He likes that he can get a really hot fire going to seer steaks. That leads to the eventual heat rust and destruction of the wire basket that holds the coals, but he loves it anyway!

When you say "wire basket" do you mean the grate that is welded to the charcoal tray, or do you use a separate, actual basket? During my various tests with this grill, I've built the fire directly on the grate in the side fire box a couple of times, and it has already started coming apart and warping. I've only built a fire in the cooking chamber once, and that was only to season the cooking grates, so that fire wasn't too hot.

At any rate, if the basket you mean is the built-in one, you could build a replacement out of expanded metal easily enough. That would have the added advantage of allowing you to put feet on it (carriage bolts with a couple of washers and nuts work nicely for this) to raise the basket above the grate a bit, and away from the ashes to improve air flow. One downside to this is that you wouldn't be able to lower the fire quite as far from the cooking surface, but you could probably compensate for that by building a somewhat smaller fire.

Another option that seems popular among Char-Griller owners is the CharBroil Shaker Basket. ($10 at my local Lowe's) Even though the wire in that basket is pretty small, it seems to stand up to heat better then the stock grates. I have one that I've used several times and it is still in good shape, and I've had that fire REALLY hot a couple of times. I've since replaced that basket with an expanded metal one that I built, just because I could make it bigger, (and thus it holds more charcoal,) but the shaker basket is still in very good shape.